<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: More Sunshine From Our Beloved European Allies</title>
	<atom:link href="http://xrlq.com/2004/05/19/more-sunshine-from-our-beloved-european-allies/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://xrlq.com/2004/05/19/more-sunshine-from-our-beloved-european-allies/</link>
	<description>Politische Kommentare mit Snarkenremarken</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 08:50:29 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Watcher of Weasels</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2004/05/19/more-sunshine-from-our-beloved-european-allies/comment-page-1/#comment-4252</link>
		<dc:creator>Watcher of Weasels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 May 2004 03:45:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/2004/05/19/1539/more-sunshine-from-our-beloved-european-allies/#comment-4252</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;The Council Has Spoken!&lt;/strong&gt;
First off...&amp;nbsp any spambots reading this should immediately go here, here, here, and here.&amp;nbsp Die spambots, die!&amp;nbsp And now...&amp;nbsp the winning entries in the Watcher&#039;s Council vote for this week are Religion and Politics by Four Right Wing Wac...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>The Council Has Spoken!</strong><br />
First off&#8230;&#038;nbsp any spambots reading this should immediately go here, here, here, and here.&#038;nbsp Die spambots, die!&#038;nbsp And now&#8230;&#038;nbsp the winning entries in the Watcher&#8217;s Council vote for this week are Religion and Politics by Four Right Wing Wac&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Pat</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2004/05/19/more-sunshine-from-our-beloved-european-allies/comment-page-1/#comment-4231</link>
		<dc:creator>Pat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 May 2004 15:46:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/2004/05/19/1539/more-sunshine-from-our-beloved-european-allies/#comment-4231</guid>
		<description>Xrlg: Granted, the phrase above uses US as &quot;toto pro pars&quot; in an inacceptable way.  But we will always find those radicals or simple minds who can not differ between a certain person or government and the nation and its people.  it is simple, it is easy to think so and remains totally stupid.  However, the serious German media do well differ between the US giv. and the US (as synonym for the people) Besides: all polls show, that not even a simple majority is behind the Bush gov. anymore anyway.

Secondly: you are right, I should grant President Bush the same benefitof the doubt that I would grant any other person.  So, while it is evident that a number of facts he presented to the public about the WMD in Iraq and the main reason for the war were simply not true, it is yet unclear, if he gave these false information knowingly or in good faith.  Hence I take that &quot;lied&quot; back and appologize for now.  There is some small evidence because of the words of Dep.Sec. of Def. Wolfowitz about WMDs never been the real main reason for the war in the first place, but thats not enough.  And it would not be the first time, that an American president fell for false or tempered evidence, just rember the bombing of the &quot;chemical weapons production&quot; in Sudan under the Clinton adminstration, which turned out to be nothing than a simple pharmaceutical fabrication after all.  Only the CIA informer had tempered with his soil samples in order to get paid...... It seems that the US administration and its agencies have just given too much credit to unreliable sources who were pushing their own agenda - like Iraq refugees in opposition of the Sadam regime.  Not all of the were poor defenseless vitcims, it would appear now.

I am well ware of the power of the first amendment in the USA.  However, one thing we Germans have learned the hard way that freedom of speech does have its boundaries in a democracy.  Those wo want to destroy the democracy should not be totally free.  Our constitution (supervised by American law authorities in 1948 and 1949 ) has found a good balance for that.  Therefore certain disgusting things are forbidden in Germany.  Thats what I was hinting at.

No, I have read a couple of dozends blogs I found listed at &quot;drink this&quot; and in none of them did I find such a clear and concrete statement like yours, sorry.  Mostly it was about denial, than about not generalizing from the deeds of a small number to the troops in toto (absolutely correct!) but not at any place did I find a rebutal to her uttering, that she carried out orders and thought it was right, just a little bit weird........

Cheerio from old Europe</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Xrlg: Granted, the phrase above uses US as &#8220;toto pro pars&#8221; in an inacceptable way.  But we will always find those radicals or simple minds who can not differ between a certain person or government and the nation and its people.  it is simple, it is easy to think so and remains totally stupid.  However, the serious German media do well differ between the US giv. and the US (as synonym for the people) Besides: all polls show, that not even a simple majority is behind the Bush gov. anymore anyway.</p>
<p>Secondly: you are right, I should grant President Bush the same benefitof the doubt that I would grant any other person.  So, while it is evident that a number of facts he presented to the public about the WMD in Iraq and the main reason for the war were simply not true, it is yet unclear, if he gave these false information knowingly or in good faith.  Hence I take that &#8220;lied&#8221; back and appologize for now.  There is some small evidence because of the words of Dep.Sec. of Def. Wolfowitz about WMDs never been the real main reason for the war in the first place, but thats not enough.  And it would not be the first time, that an American president fell for false or tempered evidence, just rember the bombing of the &#8220;chemical weapons production&#8221; in Sudan under the Clinton adminstration, which turned out to be nothing than a simple pharmaceutical fabrication after all.  Only the CIA informer had tempered with his soil samples in order to get paid&#8230;&#8230; It seems that the US administration and its agencies have just given too much credit to unreliable sources who were pushing their own agenda &#8211; like Iraq refugees in opposition of the Sadam regime.  Not all of the were poor defenseless vitcims, it would appear now.</p>
<p>I am well ware of the power of the first amendment in the USA.  However, one thing we Germans have learned the hard way that freedom of speech does have its boundaries in a democracy.  Those wo want to destroy the democracy should not be totally free.  Our constitution (supervised by American law authorities in 1948 and 1949 ) has found a good balance for that.  Therefore certain disgusting things are forbidden in Germany.  Thats what I was hinting at.</p>
<p>No, I have read a couple of dozends blogs I found listed at &#8220;drink this&#8221; and in none of them did I find such a clear and concrete statement like yours, sorry.  Mostly it was about denial, than about not generalizing from the deeds of a small number to the troops in toto (absolutely correct!) but not at any place did I find a rebutal to her uttering, that she carried out orders and thought it was right, just a little bit weird&#8230;&#8230;..</p>
<p>Cheerio from old Europe</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Xrlq</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2004/05/19/more-sunshine-from-our-beloved-european-allies/comment-page-1/#comment-4227</link>
		<dc:creator>Xrlq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 May 2004 14:39:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/2004/05/19/1539/more-sunshine-from-our-beloved-european-allies/#comment-4227</guid>
		<description>Pat:  &quot;Morally, the USA is no different from the tyrant it sought to eradicate&quot; is a broadside against the USA as a whole, not the Bush Administration per se.  There&#039;s no evidence the misconduct at Abu Ghraib had anything to do with the Administration anyway.  Also, spewing crap about how BushLied (TM) isn&#039;t particularly helpful, either.  I don&#039;t know what Nazis or &quot;Kluckers&quot; you are talking about, either, but part of living in a democracy is putting up with fringe elements.

As to the issue of obeying unlawful orders, I don&#039;t for a minute believe Lyndie England was ordered to do any of what she did - certainly not to take part in an orgy.  Even if she did (unlikely), it is well known that soldiers are not to obey unlawful orders.  The idea even has a name which is widely understood: &quot;the Nuremberg defense.&quot;  If you haven&#039;t seen any comments condemning it, you probably haven&#039;t been looking very hard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pat:  &#8220;Morally, the USA is no different from the tyrant it sought to eradicate&#8221; is a broadside against the USA as a whole, not the Bush Administration per se.  There&#8217;s no evidence the misconduct at Abu Ghraib had anything to do with the Administration anyway.  Also, spewing crap about how BushLied (TM) isn&#8217;t particularly helpful, either.  I don&#8217;t know what Nazis or &#8220;Kluckers&#8221; you are talking about, either, but part of living in a democracy is putting up with fringe elements.</p>
<p>As to the issue of obeying unlawful orders, I don&#8217;t for a minute believe Lyndie England was ordered to do any of what she did &#8211; certainly not to take part in an orgy.  Even if she did (unlikely), it is well known that soldiers are not to obey unlawful orders.  The idea even has a name which is widely understood: &#8220;the Nuremberg defense.&#8221;  If you haven&#8217;t seen any comments condemning it, you probably haven&#8217;t been looking very hard.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Pat</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2004/05/19/more-sunshine-from-our-beloved-european-allies/comment-page-1/#comment-4223</link>
		<dc:creator>Pat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 May 2004 08:31:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/2004/05/19/1539/more-sunshine-from-our-beloved-european-allies/#comment-4223</guid>
		<description>You are making two very simple mistakes:
a) you mistake anti-Bush&#039;ism, which is widespread in Germany, other European countries (among them allies from the coalition of the willing like Spain and Great Britain) with anit-Americanism. The latter is existing too, thats true, but not so widespread and deep like the first. Because you yourself are in favour of the Bush government you take critics to the President as critics to America. However there are a (currently rising) number of Americans who share the criticism against G.W. Bush. And as long as KLuckers and Nazi-gangs with weapons can roam wild and free over US-American soil you are in no position to snear about other democracies! The US are a modell democracy considering the duration and strength of the democracy there - but it is not the only modell nor necessarily the best!
b) Germany is politically divided in as many different factions as is the US or other democracies worth meantioning. Taking some statements for being the sole and only opinion of Germans is about as stupid as believing that the whole of the American militarry forces can&#039;t wait to get their hands on helpless prisoners for a little torture game and sexual fun just because a group of them actually did just that. I am a German conservative, Christian, opposed to liberals and lefties but still critical about how the Bush-government treated its long time allies and lied, provided false evidence and tried to trick the world in joining a &quot;crussade2 for totally different reasons than the one actually in mind! But does that make me anit-American? Certainly not.

Director Mitch: I am getting a bit tired of these German-bashing cliches brought up by people who usually do not even find Auschwitz on a map even if it is painted bright red.... but at least we Germans learned one thing: there are certain orders you can not, need not and must not follow, even if the come from high up in your chain of command. I did not see any comments referring to this lesson learned after  Private England declared, that she was just following orders.... That is the lesson from Nuremberg and we are greatful to have been taught just that by some great American lawyers and judges- so better start learning them yourselfes!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are making two very simple mistakes:<br />
a) you mistake anti-Bush&#8217;ism, which is widespread in Germany, other European countries (among them allies from the coalition of the willing like Spain and Great Britain) with anit-Americanism. The latter is existing too, thats true, but not so widespread and deep like the first. Because you yourself are in favour of the Bush government you take critics to the President as critics to America. However there are a (currently rising) number of Americans who share the criticism against G.W. Bush. And as long as KLuckers and Nazi-gangs with weapons can roam wild and free over US-American soil you are in no position to snear about other democracies! The US are a modell democracy considering the duration and strength of the democracy there &#8211; but it is not the only modell nor necessarily the best!<br />
b) Germany is politically divided in as many different factions as is the US or other democracies worth meantioning. Taking some statements for being the sole and only opinion of Germans is about as stupid as believing that the whole of the American militarry forces can&#8217;t wait to get their hands on helpless prisoners for a little torture game and sexual fun just because a group of them actually did just that. I am a German conservative, Christian, opposed to liberals and lefties but still critical about how the Bush-government treated its long time allies and lied, provided false evidence and tried to trick the world in joining a &#8220;crussade2 for totally different reasons than the one actually in mind! But does that make me anit-American? Certainly not.</p>
<p>Director Mitch: I am getting a bit tired of these German-bashing cliches brought up by people who usually do not even find Auschwitz on a map even if it is painted bright red&#8230;. but at least we Germans learned one thing: there are certain orders you can not, need not and must not follow, even if the come from high up in your chain of command. I did not see any comments referring to this lesson learned after  Private England declared, that she was just following orders&#8230;. That is the lesson from Nuremberg and we are greatful to have been taught just that by some great American lawyers and judges- so better start learning them yourselfes!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Watcher of Weasels</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2004/05/19/more-sunshine-from-our-beloved-european-allies/comment-page-1/#comment-4218</link>
		<dc:creator>Watcher of Weasels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 May 2004 01:50:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/2004/05/19/1539/more-sunshine-from-our-beloved-european-allies/#comment-4218</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Submitted for Your Approval&lt;/strong&gt;
First off...&amp;nbsp any spambots reading this should immediately go here, here, here, and here.&amp;nbsp Die spambots, die!&amp;nbsp And now...&amp;nbsp here are all the links submitted by members of the Watcher&#039;s Council for this week&#039;s vote. Council links:Religi...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Submitted for Your Approval</strong><br />
First off&#8230;&#038;nbsp any spambots reading this should immediately go here, here, here, and here.&#038;nbsp Die spambots, die!&#038;nbsp And now&#8230;&#038;nbsp here are all the links submitted by members of the Watcher&#8217;s Council for this week&#8217;s vote. Council links:Religi&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Justene</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2004/05/19/more-sunshine-from-our-beloved-european-allies/comment-page-1/#comment-4157</link>
		<dc:creator>Justene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 May 2004 15:04:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/2004/05/19/1539/more-sunshine-from-our-beloved-european-allies/#comment-4157</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been tired lately.  I recall reading the 128 last night and idly thinking &quot;Hmm, thought it was older than that.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been tired lately.  I recall reading the 128 last night and idly thinking &#8220;Hmm, thought it was older than that.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Xrlq</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2004/05/19/more-sunshine-from-our-beloved-european-allies/comment-page-1/#comment-4156</link>
		<dc:creator>Xrlq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 May 2004 05:50:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/2004/05/19/1539/more-sunshine-from-our-beloved-european-allies/#comment-4156</guid>
		<description>God.  Damn.  It.

It&#039;s fixed now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>God.  Damn.  It.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s fixed now.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: The Angry Clam</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2004/05/19/more-sunshine-from-our-beloved-european-allies/comment-page-1/#comment-4155</link>
		<dc:creator>The Angry Clam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 May 2004 04:20:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/2004/05/19/1539/more-sunshine-from-our-beloved-european-allies/#comment-4155</guid>
		<description>What&#039;s so special about 1876, and why did our Democracy begin then?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s so special about 1876, and why did our Democracy begin then?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Xrlq</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2004/05/19/more-sunshine-from-our-beloved-european-allies/comment-page-1/#comment-4154</link>
		<dc:creator>Xrlq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 May 2004 03:24:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/2004/05/19/1539/more-sunshine-from-our-beloved-european-allies/#comment-4154</guid>
		<description>Good point.  I&#039;ll bet that they&#039;re also pissed off that we &lt;i&gt;won&#039;t&lt;/i&gt; be hanging the culprits from Abu Ghraib.  And because we have a death penalty.  Yes, both.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point.  I&#8217;ll bet that they&#8217;re also pissed off that we <i>won&#8217;t</i> be hanging the culprits from Abu Ghraib.  And because we have a death penalty.  Yes, both.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Director Mitch</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2004/05/19/more-sunshine-from-our-beloved-european-allies/comment-page-1/#comment-4153</link>
		<dc:creator>Director Mitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 May 2004 02:52:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/2004/05/19/1539/more-sunshine-from-our-beloved-european-allies/#comment-4153</guid>
		<description>What do you expect from a people that systematically
butchered 16 million people?  They&#039;re probably still
pissed off we hanged a bunch of them after Nuremburg.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What do you expect from a people that systematically<br />
butchered 16 million people?  They&#8217;re probably still<br />
pissed off we hanged a bunch of them after Nuremburg.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

