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	<title>Comments on: New Constitutional Test: Shotgun Scrutiny</title>
	<atom:link href="http://xrlq.com/2004/08/04/new-constitutional-test-shotgun-scrutiny/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://xrlq.com/2004/08/04/new-constitutional-test-shotgun-scrutiny/</link>
	<description>Politische Kommentare mit Snarkenremarken</description>
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		<title>By: Xrlq</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2004/08/04/new-constitutional-test-shotgun-scrutiny/comment-page-1/#comment-5035</link>
		<dc:creator>Xrlq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Aug 2004 19:44:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/2004/08/04/1751/new-constitutional-test-shotgun-scrutiny/#comment-5035</guid>
		<description>A right to &quot;personal associations&quot; is a totally different issue.  Personal associations other than marriage are not entitled to legal recognition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A right to &#8220;personal associations&#8221; is a totally different issue.  Personal associations other than marriage are not entitled to legal recognition.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2004/08/04/new-constitutional-test-shotgun-scrutiny/comment-page-1/#comment-5032</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Aug 2004 17:55:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/2004/08/04/1751/new-constitutional-test-shotgun-scrutiny/#comment-5032</guid>
		<description>Not just Loving v. Virginia, I might add, but Meyer v. Nebraska, Turney v. Safley, and Zablocki v. Redhail. And there are a bunch of other Supreme Court cases that protect the right to personal associations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not just Loving v. Virginia, I might add, but Meyer v. Nebraska, Turney v. Safley, and Zablocki v. Redhail. And there are a bunch of other Supreme Court cases that protect the right to personal associations.</p>
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		<title>By: Right Side of the Rainbow</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2004/08/04/new-constitutional-test-shotgun-scrutiny/comment-page-1/#comment-5023</link>
		<dc:creator>Right Side of the Rainbow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Aug 2004 23:44:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/2004/08/04/1751/new-constitutional-test-shotgun-scrutiny/#comment-5023</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Who needs democracy? (Imperial overlords edition)&lt;/strong&gt;
A Robed Master has declared Washington&#039;s prohibition on same-sex marriage a violation of the state constitution. In this opinion, Lord William Downing of King County Superior Court writes that it is the &quot;sworn task of the courts&quot; to uphold the...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Who needs democracy? (Imperial overlords edition)</strong><br />
A Robed Master has declared Washington&#8217;s prohibition on same-sex marriage a violation of the state constitution. In this opinion, Lord William Downing of King County Superior Court writes that it is the &#8220;sworn task of the courts&#8221; to uphold the&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Xrlq</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2004/08/04/new-constitutional-test-shotgun-scrutiny/comment-page-1/#comment-5022</link>
		<dc:creator>Xrlq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Aug 2004 23:28:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/2004/08/04/1751/new-constitutional-test-shotgun-scrutiny/#comment-5022</guid>
		<description>Courts.  Freedom of political speech or free exercise of religion, for example, are &quot;fundamental rights&quot; under the First Amendment.  So is freedom to marry, according to &lt;i&gt;Loving v. Virginia.&lt;/i&gt;  The trick is whether that freedom extends to &quot;marriages&quot; that deviate from marriage in the traditional sense.  The &lt;i&gt;Loving&lt;/i&gt; court says no, but this judge says yes.

Most other restrictions of liberty do not impact &quot;fundamental rights,&quot; and thus do not trigger heightened review.  Suppose that Washington banned sodomy, and the same case had come before the same judge two years ago.  Theoretically, he then should have ruled that gays have a right to marry, but no right to consummate the marriage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Courts.  Freedom of political speech or free exercise of religion, for example, are &#8220;fundamental rights&#8221; under the First Amendment.  So is freedom to marry, according to <i>Loving v. Virginia.</i>  The trick is whether that freedom extends to &#8220;marriages&#8221; that deviate from marriage in the traditional sense.  The <i>Loving</i> court says no, but this judge says yes.</p>
<p>Most other restrictions of liberty do not impact &#8220;fundamental rights,&#8221; and thus do not trigger heightened review.  Suppose that Washington banned sodomy, and the same case had come before the same judge two years ago.  Theoretically, he then should have ruled that gays have a right to marry, but no right to consummate the marriage.</p>
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		<title>By: aphrael</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2004/08/04/new-constitutional-test-shotgun-scrutiny/comment-page-1/#comment-5021</link>
		<dc:creator>aphrael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Aug 2004 23:13:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/2004/08/04/1751/new-constitutional-test-shotgun-scrutiny/#comment-5021</guid>
		<description>Hmm. I didn&#039;t realize that there was a compelling state interest test for substantive due process claims. That raises another point, though: doesn&#039;t virtually all law constitute, on some level, a restriction of liberty? Who decides which restrictions deprive you of LIBERTY and which don&#039;t?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm. I didn&#8217;t realize that there was a compelling state interest test for substantive due process claims. That raises another point, though: doesn&#8217;t virtually all law constitute, on some level, a restriction of liberty? Who decides which restrictions deprive you of LIBERTY and which don&#8217;t?</p>
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		<title>By: Xrlq</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2004/08/04/new-constitutional-test-shotgun-scrutiny/comment-page-1/#comment-5020</link>
		<dc:creator>Xrlq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Aug 2004 21:52:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/2004/08/04/1751/new-constitutional-test-shotgun-scrutiny/#comment-5020</guid>
		<description>The judge didn&#039;t actually rule under the 14th Amendment, but the entire opinion read as though he did, so let&#039;s discuss it that way.  Under the 14th Amendment, a law can be challenged &lt;i&gt;either&lt;/i&gt; under the equal protection clause &lt;i&gt;or&lt;/i&gt; under the due process clause, among others.  Suspect classes are relevant to discrimination (equal protection) challenges, but not to substantive due process (liberty interest) ones.  Thus, to the extent that the fundamental &quot;right to marry&quot; includes gay marriage, a law impacting that right will be subject to strict scrutiny on that basis, not on the grounds that it is (allegedly) discriminatory.  Of course, if you really buy that logic, it must follow that ending marriage as a legal institution would also be unconstitutional, as it would deprive EVERYONE of their &quot;fundamental right&quot; to marry.

That said, you are right there is a weird leap in the judge&#039;s ruling.  Basically, he&#039;s saying that on the one hand, discrmiinating against gays is no big deal, but on the other, a law restricting &lt;i&gt;everyone&#039;s&lt;/i&gt; right to marry members of his own sex, is.  Go figure.

If this ruling sticks, it may raise all kinds of problems for other, less controversial restrictions on marriage.  License fees, for example, discriminate against cheap bastards.  Cheap bastards, like gays, are not a suspect class, and therefore would have a very difficult time mounting an equal protection challenge.  But a substantive due process challenge?  Why not?  Ditto for incest, assuming one partner is either sterile or willing to become so.  Add polygamy, and just about every other conceivable arrangement between consenting adults for which anyone might seek legal recognition.  Since we&#039;re relying on an amorphous &quot;liberty&quot; interest, where does it stop?

The more I think about it, this ruling is, potentially, &lt;i&gt;much&lt;/i&gt; more dangerous than any rulings we&#039;ve seen before.  The equal protection slope is not nearly as slippery as the substantive due process one.  The former can be stopped in its tracks by a court ruling that gays are a suspect class but polygamists are not.  The latter does not depend on that distinction, only a colorable argument that whatever the plaintiff wants to do should be regarded as a marriage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The judge didn&#8217;t actually rule under the 14th Amendment, but the entire opinion read as though he did, so let&#8217;s discuss it that way.  Under the 14th Amendment, a law can be challenged <i>either</i> under the equal protection clause <i>or</i> under the due process clause, among others.  Suspect classes are relevant to discrimination (equal protection) challenges, but not to substantive due process (liberty interest) ones.  Thus, to the extent that the fundamental &#8220;right to marry&#8221; includes gay marriage, a law impacting that right will be subject to strict scrutiny on that basis, not on the grounds that it is (allegedly) discriminatory.  Of course, if you really buy that logic, it must follow that ending marriage as a legal institution would also be unconstitutional, as it would deprive EVERYONE of their &#8220;fundamental right&#8221; to marry.</p>
<p>That said, you are right there is a weird leap in the judge&#8217;s ruling.  Basically, he&#8217;s saying that on the one hand, discrmiinating against gays is no big deal, but on the other, a law restricting <i>everyone&#8217;s</i> right to marry members of his own sex, is.  Go figure.</p>
<p>If this ruling sticks, it may raise all kinds of problems for other, less controversial restrictions on marriage.  License fees, for example, discriminate against cheap bastards.  Cheap bastards, like gays, are not a suspect class, and therefore would have a very difficult time mounting an equal protection challenge.  But a substantive due process challenge?  Why not?  Ditto for incest, assuming one partner is either sterile or willing to become so.  Add polygamy, and just about every other conceivable arrangement between consenting adults for which anyone might seek legal recognition.  Since we&#8217;re relying on an amorphous &#8220;liberty&#8221; interest, where does it stop?</p>
<p>The more I think about it, this ruling is, potentially, <i>much</i> more dangerous than any rulings we&#8217;ve seen before.  The equal protection slope is not nearly as slippery as the substantive due process one.  The former can be stopped in its tracks by a court ruling that gays are a suspect class but polygamists are not.  The latter does not depend on that distinction, only a colorable argument that whatever the plaintiff wants to do should be regarded as a marriage.</p>
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		<title>By: aphrael</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2004/08/04/new-constitutional-test-shotgun-scrutiny/comment-page-1/#comment-5019</link>
		<dc:creator>aphrael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Aug 2004 21:25:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>It was pretty clear that he understood the distinction between the legitimate interest/compelling interest tests. What was odd was that he denied that homosexuals constitute a suspect class but *still* insisted that, because marriage is involved, a compelling state interest must be involved. I didn&#039;t quite follow the logical jump there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was pretty clear that he understood the distinction between the legitimate interest/compelling interest tests. What was odd was that he denied that homosexuals constitute a suspect class but *still* insisted that, because marriage is involved, a compelling state interest must be involved. I didn&#8217;t quite follow the logical jump there.</p>
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		<title>By: The Indepundit</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2004/08/04/new-constitutional-test-shotgun-scrutiny/comment-page-1/#comment-5017</link>
		<dc:creator>The Indepundit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Aug 2004 20:39:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/2004/08/04/1751/new-constitutional-test-shotgun-scrutiny/#comment-5017</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Gay Marriage Legal in WA?&lt;/strong&gt;
DENYING MARRIAGE LISCENSES to same-sex couples is a violation of their constitutional rights, a Seattle judge ruled Wednesday. &quot;The denial...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Gay Marriage Legal in WA?</strong><br />
DENYING MARRIAGE LISCENSES to same-sex couples is a violation of their constitutional rights, a Seattle judge ruled Wednesday. &#8220;The denial&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Lachlan</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2004/08/04/new-constitutional-test-shotgun-scrutiny/comment-page-1/#comment-5016</link>
		<dc:creator>Lachlan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Aug 2004 20:24:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/2004/08/04/1751/new-constitutional-test-shotgun-scrutiny/#comment-5016</guid>
		<description>I added a link to the actual decision, btw. And thanks for the nod!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I added a link to the actual decision, btw. And thanks for the nod!</p>
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