Fact-Checking FactCheck.ORG
[Duplicate post deleted]
The grossly overrated, sometimes useful and occasionally coherent FactCheck.org accuses Dick Cheney of “overstating” the Iraq resolution that Senators Kerry and Edwards supported. Cheney said the Senators voted “for the war,” which they did. Citing weasel words from H.J. Res. 114 the resolution itself, FactCheck.ORG concludes that the resolution, in substance, merely authorized the President to effectively declare war on his own.
If H.J. Res. 114 were the supreme law of the land, I’d have to concede FactCheck’s point that it was really just an authorization for the President to declare war if he saw fit to do so, and not a declaration of war in and of itself. Trouble is, H.J. Res 114 is not the supreme law of the land; the U.S. Constitution is. Article I, Sec. 8 affords to Congress, and Congress alone, the power to declare war. No part of the Constitution authorizes the President to declare war, either with or without Congress’s assent. That leaves only two possibilities: either H.J. Res 114 was a declaration of war, or it was a meaningless, nonbinding resolution encouraging the President to violate the separation of powers by taking the war power into his own hands.
So, Kerry/Edwards supporters, which is it? Did your guys vote to declare the same war they are now trashing the President for prosecuting, or did they vote to encourage the President to ignore the Constitution altogether? Our consititutional framework does not provide for a third option.
I don’t buy Xriq’s argument. As a practical matter, we no longer have a Constitutional requirement that Congress declare war. The last explicit declaration of war was 63 years ago. (At least, I assime that Korea didn’t involve a declaration of war, since it was a “UN police action.”)
An alternative refutation of factcheck is that when Congress voted to authorize war, they knew that we were going to attack Saddam. Even though Bush ostensibly was giving him a final chance to comply with UN demands, his conduct made it clear that he wasn’t going to do that. At the very least, Congress knew that if Saddam didn’t comply fully, we’d make war on him.
I’m not sure what “as a practical matter” means. The Constitution was not amended over the last 63 in any way that would affect the war power. Some argue that if Congress doesn’t use the magic words “we declare war,” it isn’t a declaration of war. I don’t buy that, as the Constitution is silent as to what form a declaration of war should take. I’m OK with a Congressional “authorization of force,” because I think that that is a declaration of war. If it’s not, then it’s a pointless exercise; might as well let the President go out and fight his battles on his own.
Your alternative explanation is good – in fact, it’s part of the reason why I would argue that this “authorization of force” was in fact a declaration of war. Even if it wasn’t, it takes a lot of political chutzpah to vote for any resolution that says the President shall have the authority to do X, and then complain about the President actually exercising that authority and doing X.
The phrase “as a practical matter” meant to refer to parts of the Constitution that have been effective changed without a formal amendment. The Gulf of Tonkin Resolution is a good example. That Resolution didn’t declare war, nor did it requre military action. It gave the President authority to act at his discretion. Quoting wikipedia, The “Gulf of Tonkin Resolution… gave President Johnson approval ‘to take all necessary steps, including the use of armed force, to assist any member or protocol state of the Southeast Asia Collective Defense Treaty requesting assistance in defense of its freedom.’ Both Johnson and President Richard Nixon used the Resolution as a justification for escalated involvement in Indochina.”
It’s now widely accepted that the Resolution was based on an exaggeration, but only a minority argues that its wording was insufficient to serve as a declaration of war.
Is it any wonder that no Presdient has been happy about the “War Powers Act” of the 70′s? Usually it is invoked in claiming that the President cannot use troops withiout Congressional OK (as Clinton did in Kosovo and Bush did in Panama). All presidents since, including Jimmy Carter, have felt the WPA prevents them from being Commander-in-Chief and that it is unconstitutional.
In this instance it was used in the affirmative, but even here it muddies up the issue of who can declare war, if war it is.
On the other hand, without such a law, Presidents would do the Kosovo/Panama/Grenada thing more often, and never ask for a Congressional OK until they needed money (which Congress will almost always give with troops in harm’s way).
My take? The Consitution is unworkable in its present form and Congress has created an alternative that seems to work. I note the courts don’t seem to want to overturn it anytime soon.
Read the resolution preceding operations in Afghanistan. Last time I tracked it down, it seemed awful open ended to me.
Al–
And your point?
Remember, the first country the US invaded in WW2 was Morocco, which I doubt was named in any resolution.
I was saying that the Afghanistan authorization seemed like it could be summarized thusly: “Anyone that crosses us will be considered to be in a a state of war with the US.” With flowery terms. I wasn’t saying it was invalid because it didn’t name names – just that it was an open ended carte blanche. (I’m not clear if this was fixed in a later resolution of something, this is all IIRC).
Use of force authorizations are not declarations of war. Besides holding the authority to declare war, congress also holds the purse strings of the military.
Military engagements without a full “Declaration of War” are not new, nor a result of the War Powers Act. Different animals; apples and oranges; fruit and vegetables and all that.
FWIW, congress told the President after 9/11 and again in October 2002, you do whatever you think is best and we’ll support you. Now Kerry and Edwards are saying that’s not what they meant, Kerry had conditions in his Senate floor oratory that weren’t in the bill, and they definitely don’t support the President anymore.
As Gomer Pyle might say, “Sir-Prize, Sir-Prize, Sir-Prize.”
Nah, use of force authorizations are just declarations of war under a different name. Funding such wars is a separate issue.
Doesn’t it make sense that these would have to be phrased in a somewhat open-ended way? It seems to me that some allowance should be made for last-minute diplomacy (or compliance with U.N. resolutions) to avoid war. Therefore wouldn’t these things tend to be phrased as authorizations, rather than as outright declarations?–in the modern age, would be unlikely to have the legislators phrase it in such a way that the President isn’t given any option? I just think they’re always going to leave an “out,” rather than telling the President he has to make war whether he likes it or not . . .
Good point, but AFAIK that’s true of formal declarations of war also. Congress can declare a war, but he can’t force the President to prosecute it if he doesn’t want to.
“Mr. President, I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force – if necessary – to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security and that of our allies in the Persian Gulf region. And I will vote “yes” because on the question of how best to hold Saddam Hussein accountable, the Administration, including the President, recognizes that war must be our last option to address this threat, not the first, and that we should be acting in concert with allies around the globe to make the world’s case against Saddam Hussein. As the President made clear earlier this week, “Approving this resolution does not mean that military action is imminent or unavoidable.” It means that “America speaks with one voice.”
I can’t interpret these words as a declaration of war. Help me out, here.
“These words” are Kerry’s comments about the resolution, not the resolution itself. Depending on how you read the war power, the resolution was either a declaration of war, or an exercise in futility. If Presidents can fight wars without a declaration (formal or informal), then they don’t need Congressional authorization of any kind.
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October 7th, 2004 at 10:07 am
they don’t know
October 7th, 2004 at 1:42 pm
“The post so nice, he put it up twice.”
What are you, distracted or something?
October 7th, 2004 at 3:20 pm
D’oh.
October 8th, 2004 at 4:28 pm
I am not American,but in common law and laws regarding arrest and search, reasonable suspicion is enough for arrest or search. Exibits eg WMD will be required for prosecution in court, so if you want to be sure that in order to make arrest you want to be sure that you need 100% proof of evidence to make arrest, I am afraid You will prosecute few or no criminal because arrest and search proceed prosecution in a court of law. In short, For search to succed, suspet needs to comply or force must be used, Enforcer needs only reasonable suspicion. In this case not only reasonable suspicion exists but evidence(direct and circumstatial) of 12 years is in abundace.