Comments on: (Tax) Cut the Cheese http://xrlq.com/2004/12/05/tax-cut-the-cheese/ Politische Kommentare mit Snarkenremarken Mon, 14 May 2012 18:16:35 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Xrlq http://xrlq.com/2004/12/05/tax-cut-the-cheese/comment-page-1/#comment-9857 Xrlq Tue, 07 Dec 2004 17:06:50 +0000 http://xrlq.com/2004/12/05/2060/tax-cut-the-cheese/#comment-9857 Kevin, I agree. However, you don't get to choose which IRS to deal with. You do get to choose which tax software you'll use, though, so to the extent that the EULA makes a difference, TurboTax's is much better. Kevin, I agree. However, you don’t get to choose which IRS to deal with. You do get to choose which tax software you’ll use, though, so to the extent that the EULA makes a difference, TurboTax’s is much better.

]]> By: Xrlq http://xrlq.com/2004/12/05/tax-cut-the-cheese/comment-page-1/#comment-9810 Xrlq Tue, 07 Dec 2004 02:16:58 +0000 http://xrlq.com/2004/12/05/2060/tax-cut-the-cheese/#comment-9810 Sigivald: if they acknowledge that I haven't yet "agreed" to the EULA merely by virtue of existing / owning the product for 10 days / etc., how can they expect me to be bound to a 10 day return policy? Especially when a 60 day satisfaction guarantee is displayed prominently on the box? Besides, if you can't get your money back, I'm not sure what good it does to not be deemed to have "accepted" the EULA. Mike: I don't know about Quicken, but I soon will, seeing as it was one of the freebies I picked up today with TurboTax. Will keep you posted. Sigivald: if they acknowledge that I haven’t yet “agreed” to the EULA merely by virtue of existing / owning the product for 10 days / etc., how can they expect me to be bound to a 10 day return policy? Especially when a 60 day satisfaction guarantee is displayed prominently on the box? Besides, if you can’t get your money back, I’m not sure what good it does to not be deemed to have “accepted” the EULA.

Mike: I don’t know about Quicken, but I soon will, seeing as it was one of the freebies I picked up today with TurboTax. Will keep you posted.

]]> By: Mike http://xrlq.com/2004/12/05/tax-cut-the-cheese/comment-page-1/#comment-9809 Mike Tue, 07 Dec 2004 01:21:40 +0000 http://xrlq.com/2004/12/05/2060/tax-cut-the-cheese/#comment-9809 The main point of the EULA (which used to be considered accepted if you opened the package - to read the ELUA)is that, as you point out, "we own the software. We're only letting you use if 'cause we're so bleedin' generous. If it works at all, that'll be a miracle and news to us. If it doesn't work, feel free to write your own software (but be sure you don't accidentally infringe on any of our 1006 patents). Just out of curiosity, is Quicken's package any better? EULA-wise, of course. The main point of the EULA (which used to be considered accepted if you opened the package – to read the ELUA)is that, as you point out, “we own the software. We’re only letting you use if ’cause we’re so bleedin’ generous. If it works at all, that’ll be a miracle and news to us. If it doesn’t work, feel free to write your own software (but be sure you don’t accidentally infringe on any of our 1006 patents).

Just out of curiosity, is Quicken’s package any better? EULA-wise, of course.

]]> By: Sigivald http://xrlq.com/2004/12/05/tax-cut-the-cheese/comment-page-1/#comment-9808 Sigivald Tue, 07 Dec 2004 00:23:07 +0000 http://xrlq.com/2004/12/05/2060/tax-cut-the-cheese/#comment-9808 Your very first EULA complaint isn't quite on, I think. Looks to me like the 10 days thing is your time-window for getting your money back. It does <i>not</i> read, to me, as a claim that you are assumed to accept the license if you haven't clicked "accept" within ten days. That would be kinda pointless, since you can't even install the thing without clicking "accept" anyway, right? Your very first EULA complaint isn’t quite on, I think.

Looks to me like the 10 days thing is your time-window for getting your money back. It does not read, to me, as a claim that you are assumed to accept the license if you haven’t clicked “accept” within ten days.

That would be kinda pointless, since you can’t even install the thing without clicking “accept” anyway, right?

]]> By: Kevin Murphy http://xrlq.com/2004/12/05/tax-cut-the-cheese/comment-page-1/#comment-9806 Kevin Murphy Mon, 06 Dec 2004 20:33:35 +0000 http://xrlq.com/2004/12/05/2060/tax-cut-the-cheese/#comment-9806 Let me get this straight: You're complaining about EULA's for income tax software? Just imagine if there was an EULA for Form 1040.... I'll bet you it'd be far worse. IRS EULA 103.5a) And if you don't pay, we can send people with guns to take you away and hold you hostage until you or your family pays (and maybe hold you a while longer to prove a point). Let me get this straight: You’re complaining about EULA’s for income tax software? Just imagine if there was an EULA for Form 1040…. I’ll bet you it’d be far worse.

IRS EULA 103.5a) And if you don’t pay, we can send people with guns to take you away and hold you hostage until you or your family pays (and maybe hold you a while longer to prove a point).

]]> By: Xrlq http://xrlq.com/2004/12/05/tax-cut-the-cheese/comment-page-1/#comment-9798 Xrlq Mon, 06 Dec 2004 17:09:27 +0000 http://xrlq.com/2004/12/05/2060/tax-cut-the-cheese/#comment-9798 Mark, I'm not sure I understand your point. This EULA does all the things you list, with the possible exception of #4, and disclaims all liability which arises "for any reason." How is it "better" than any of them, except maybe <a href="http://www.benedelman.org/news/112904-1.html">Gator's spyware "agreement?"</a> Short of requiring <em>me</em> to indemnify <em>them</em> for damages resulting from errors caused by <em>them,</em> I'm not sure how much worse it could be. As I explained in the original post, the issue of installing on more than one computer is different for tax software than it is for most other applications. If I install a single copy of Microsoft Windows on two computers, I get double the utility. If I install a single copy of Tax Cut or Turbo Tax on two computers, all I get is the convenience of being able to work on my taxes from whatever computer is handy at any given time. If they're that worried about piracy, why not allow users to copy the software willy-nilly, and just limit the number of tax returns that can be filed per each license? I don't know if TurboTax has reverted to its evil ways or not. Presumably, if it had, they wouldn't still be displaying their apologetic letter from early 2003 on their web site. Regardless, I'm returning TaxCut and buying TurboTax today. That issue was the main reason I switched from TurboTax to TaxCut in the first place, so even if both products are now equally bad, that's no reason to pick TaxCut over the old standby. Plus, the TurboTax deal running at Fry's right now is better, anyway: $5 more for the package, but you get a free copy of Norton along with it. Mark, I’m not sure I understand your point. This EULA does all the things you list, with the possible exception of #4, and disclaims all liability which arises “for any reason.” How is it “better” than any of them, except maybe Gator’s spyware “agreement?” Short of requiring me to indemnify them for damages resulting from errors caused by them, I’m not sure how much worse it could be.

As I explained in the original post, the issue of installing on more than one computer is different for tax software than it is for most other applications. If I install a single copy of Microsoft Windows on two computers, I get double the utility. If I install a single copy of Tax Cut or Turbo Tax on two computers, all I get is the convenience of being able to work on my taxes from whatever computer is handy at any given time. If they’re that worried about piracy, why not allow users to copy the software willy-nilly, and just limit the number of tax returns that can be filed per each license?

I don’t know if TurboTax has reverted to its evil ways or not. Presumably, if it had, they wouldn’t still be displaying their apologetic letter from early 2003 on their web site. Regardless, I’m returning TaxCut and buying TurboTax today. That issue was the main reason I switched from TurboTax to TaxCut in the first place, so even if both products are now equally bad, that’s no reason to pick TaxCut over the old standby. Plus, the TurboTax deal running at Fry’s right now is better, anyway: $5 more for the package, but you get a free copy of Norton along with it.

]]> By: markm http://xrlq.com/2004/12/05/tax-cut-the-cheese/comment-page-1/#comment-9795 markm Mon, 06 Dec 2004 16:43:14 +0000 http://xrlq.com/2004/12/05/2060/tax-cut-the-cheese/#comment-9795 Have you read any other software EULA's? This is actually one of the better ones - they take a certain amount of responsibility for the software actually working. Most software licenses: 1) Disclaim merchantibility, fitness, non-infringement, etc. The only thing they'll guarantee is that if the disk itself is bad, they'll replace it - provided you demand it before they get busted for stealing the program in the first place. 2) Allow you to install it on just one machine at a time. 3) You don't actually own the software, but are just renting it for an indefinite period. That is, you can't resell it, modify it, or try to figure out how it works. 4) They may also forbid you from testing the program's performance versus other competing programs and from publishing the results of such testing. <b>In other words, you might have signed away the right of even putting a critical review onto your blog when you clicked through the EULA.</b> Have you read any other software EULA’s? This is actually one of the better ones – they take a certain amount of responsibility for the software actually working. Most software licenses:

1) Disclaim merchantibility, fitness, non-infringement, etc. The only thing they’ll guarantee is that if the disk itself is bad, they’ll replace it – provided you demand it before they get busted for stealing the program in the first place.

2) Allow you to install it on just one machine at a time.

3) You don’t actually own the software, but are just renting it for an indefinite period. That is, you can’t resell it, modify it, or try to figure out how it works.

4) They may also forbid you from testing the program’s performance versus other competing programs and from publishing the results of such testing. In other words, you might have signed away the right of even putting a critical review onto your blog when you clicked through the EULA.

]]> By: SayUncle : A blogging first? http://xrlq.com/2004/12/05/tax-cut-the-cheese/comment-page-1/#comment-9787 SayUncle : A blogging first? Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://xrlq.com/2004/12/05/2060/tax-cut-the-cheese/#comment-9787 [...] uo; Previous Post | Main | <a name="4306"></a> A blogging first? |By SayUncle| <a href="http://xrlq.com/archives/2004/12/05/2060/tax-cut-the-cheese">Fisking a EULA</a>? | Link | | Category: Blog Matters, Technology | [...] [...] uo; Previous Post | Main |


A blogging first?
|By SayUncle|

Fisking a EULA?
| Link | | Category: Blog Matters, Technology | [...]

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