Armed Assholes
Publicola takes issue with Connie du Toit’s response to Randroid Jason, a.k.a. FishOrMan’s recent attitude-induced arrest, which Jason originally blogged but has since had the good sense to depublish. Connie’s position, in a nutshell, is that gun owners have a heightened duty to keep their cool while armed, and that other gun owners should “police their own” when confronted with those who do not. Publicola’s boils down to the notion that every man is an island, and no gun owner owes any duties to any other gun owners besides complying with applicable laws – if that. Thus, if someone who resides in a right-to-carry state chooses not to obtain a permit to carry, and instead carries openly to make a political point, we’re supposed to just accept it, not pass moral judgments. Publicola writes:
Getting back to the point – when we carry we are not ambassadors to the world. We are merely people who carry openly. When I strap on my hogleg I have no societal duty to act more or less polite than when I’m unarmed. Now that’s not saying we should walk around being asshats – just that the reasons for being nice to others is not grounded in your representation of the pro-gun cause.
In a parallel universe where everyone is armed and no one even discusses the right to bear arms because everyone takes it for granted, Publicola’s position might be justifiable. But in the real one, it’s untenable. Rightly or wrongly, every person who does something criminal, stupid, or otherwise objectionable with a gun makes us all look bad, and as a practical matter, significantly imperils your right to bear arms, mine, and everyone else’s. Sheepdog put it this way:
If a CHL pulls a weapon illegal[y] in road rage, as has happened on more then a few occasions, it becomes a talking point for the gun control lobby. It becomes a hot bed for heated discussion among common allies under the 2nd.
Yup. I’ve had more heated debates than I can count with anti-gunners who know me and respect me and easily volunteered that they trust me with a gun; they just don’t trust all those other people out there. Publicola writes this concern off by comparing group associations directed at gunners to those directed at minorities:
Some will view any actions by a gun owner that acts rudely as indicative of all gun owners. Some people will also think a black man who doesn’t say “please” & “thank you” means all black people are inconsiderate. It’s no more than group association & should be shunned by everyone – not just gun owners.
Which is true, for whatever good it does; such gropu associations should be shunned by gun owners and non-gun owners alike, just as racial stereotypes about blacks should be shunned by blacks and non-blacks alike. The problem is that neither of these stereotypes are shunned, and until they are, no group can afford to tolerate those of its members who confirm everyone else’s worst fears about the group as a whole. The only thing worse than tolerating the bad applies is to rush to their defense without knowing all the facts, as countless pro-gun bloggers did after hearing only Randroid Jason’s side of the story – despite the fact that even his side of the story made him look like an asshole.
While other pro-gun bloggers offer Randroid Jason their misplaced sympathy, I offer him some constructive advice. First, hire a good lawyer to get out of this current mess. Second, once you’ve been cleared of any real wrongdoing, go out and get yourself a friggin’ permit. If you can’t afford the $50 fee, I’ll be happy to lead a blogdrive to raise the money so you can. But if don’t want a permit, and would rather have something to whine about, then to hell with you. You deserve whatever you get.
January 8th, 2005 at 4:46 pm
You are confusing the issue of whether jason was right with the issue of whether or not the police or wrong. If the police lied (as asserted) that is wrong. Period. I concur that jason should just get a permit (that’s why I have one) but that doesn’t excuse the officer’s behavior.
January 8th, 2005 at 5:13 pm
Not confusing anything with anything else. This post is about Jason’s grandstanding, not about whether the police were right or wrong.
January 9th, 2005 at 4:43 am
I didn’t jump to his defense. If you read my whole post you’d have seen that I specifically stated that “I admit, this isn’t both sides of the story and I’m taking what this story says at face value”.
I know I was only getting his side and that there was a lot more than met the eyes. His story isn’t what I worried about, but rather the whole gun control issue. That’s all.
The more I read on that guy the more I realized he seemed to be quite a dick.
January 9th, 2005 at 6:57 am
Same here. I was commenting on the alleged behavior of the cop and not Fishorman’s.
January 9th, 2005 at 7:03 pm
Sharp: that was my point, really. I’ve only read Jason’s side of the story, too, nut I still think he was out of line. If the cops blogged their version somewhere, I have little doubt he would end up looking even worse.
Uncle: you had me fooled with “Jason and his wife detail what happens when you try to obey gun laws.” If that wasn’t taking Jason’s side of the debate, it sure sounded like it.
January 9th, 2005 at 11:54 pm
We are always ambassadors to the world. Always.
January 10th, 2005 at 5:53 am
Per his account, he was trying to obey gun laws. In fact, he went in to painstaking detail about how he went out his way to comply with the law (of course, why he didn’t comply by getting a permit I don’t know).
You shouldn’t be arrested for being a dick. Otherwise, the prisons would be more full. Jason’s behavior does not excuse the police. I expect people to be assholes but the police should know better.
January 10th, 2005 at 1:39 pm
Just for the record, I never said that anyone (specifics omitted intentionally) that anyone should get a permit (for anything) if they don’t want to. If they want to carry illegally or legally, it makes no difference.
What DOES make a difference is whether or not you accept that there are consequences, repercussions, or results for whatever decision you make.
If someone is practicing open carry in an area where it is not common, the police are not known for being up to speed on the law, then you should not be surprised when the police frequently stop you and ask questions. In fact, you should be prepared for it and perhaps (just to make your life easier) carry a copy of the relevant laws that prove that what you are doing is illegal. Before handing it to the cop, saying something like, “Officer, I’m a law abiding citizen. I recognize that you may not have gotten the word or there is some confusion on this point, but since I’m a stubborn fool and feel it is not only my right, but my duty to exercise open carry, here is a copy of the laws that allow me to do this. I understand and respect your authority to verify that I am in accordance with the law, and don’t want any trouble.”
You’d think after a few experiences you’d sort of have the language down and could turn a confrontational situation into a win-win.
January 10th, 2005 at 11:17 pm
Progress on Guns nears
What I am saying is that carrying a gun made me a better citizen … Stupid, selfish, small-mined people make everything more dificult, including the gun deabte. The mysterious Xrlq has it right, but follow her link to Connie Du Toit’s take on the ma…
January 11th, 2005 at 10:07 am
I have to disagree, Connie. There is a moral distinction between obeying the law and breaking it. Sometimes you have little choice but to break the law, of course, but that’s no excuse for breaking the law under other circumstances. If you have no legal opportunity to carry, or if the only legal option is one that significantly impairs your ability to use the gun in an emergency (e.g., by forcing you to keep the mag separate from the gun, or lock everything in a case, or whatever), that’s one thing. But if your legal and illegal options are equally useful to you (i.e., holding a permit doesn’t make your concealed pistol any more useful in a pinch than it would be if you didn’t hold a permit), the moral preference for obeying the law over flouting it ought to be clear.
Just in case it’s not clear, though, here’s a practical reason to prefer legality over illegality. If you carry legally, you won’t have to think twice before pulling your gun whenever you encounter a situation that warrants it. If you’re carrying illegally and are personally threatened, then of course you’ll use your gun; better to be tried by twelve than carried by six. But what if the victim isn’t you, a close friend or a family member, but a perfect stranger? Or maybe even a near-stranger who recently pissed you off a little in some inconsequential way? Do you play the hero and risk prison for carrying, or do you protect your own skin, act horrified, and pretend to be unarmed? Better to avoid this dilemma entirely by getting a permit in the first place.
January 18th, 2005 at 7:03 am
I think Jason could save himself, his wife, and everyone else a lot of trouble by getting a carry permit.
The rest of his troubles are caused by the fact that he’s often not really been following the law, despite what he claims. The first incident he had while open carrying he wasn’t really open carrying. He had the gun in the cargo pocket of his pants with the butt sticking out. The next time (when the bank employee called 911) he had a ClipDraw on the gun, with the gun stuck in his waistband and the butt sticking out. People on The High Road gave him so much grief over that last May that he went out and bought a belt holster so he wouldn’t look like a gangster.
During the police stop, he was at a minimum skirting the edge of the law. The gun was unloaded in a holster next to him. However, the magazine was in his lap. Either he was driving around with a magazine in his lap and didn’t put it away when a policeman pulled him over, or he put the magazine in his lap when the blue lights came on. Either way, it doesn’t look very good.
Like isntapundit said, it’s legal to have a gun and it’s legal to be an asshole, but who wants to be around an asshole with a gun? When cops respond to a 911 call about a man with a gun, don’t be an asshole. Be as calm as you can possibly be.