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	<title>Comments on: Domestic Partnerships: Not Gay Marriage</title>
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	<link>http://xrlq.com/2005/04/06/domestic-partnerships-not-gay-marriage/</link>
	<description>Politische Kommentare mit Snarkenremarken</description>
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		<title>By: E%ploited3</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2005/04/06/domestic-partnerships-not-gay-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-31122</link>
		<dc:creator>E%ploited3</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Sep 2005 00:56:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;cite&gt;[Irrelevant, rambling, race-baiting spam deleted, user banned. -X.]&lt;/cite&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><cite>[Irrelevant, rambling, race-baiting spam deleted, user banned. -X.]</cite></p>
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		<title>By: BoiFromTroy</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2005/04/06/domestic-partnerships-not-gay-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-15217</link>
		<dc:creator>BoiFromTroy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Apr 2005 18:31:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Domestic Partnership Ruling a setback for Marriage&lt;/strong&gt;

As XRLQ pointed out yesterday, language in a recent California ruling affirming the status of Domestic Partnerships may deal a setback to efforts to provide equal marriage rights through the legislative process. The San Francisco Chronicle reports toda...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Domestic Partnership Ruling a setback for Marriage</strong></p>
<p>As XRLQ pointed out yesterday, language in a recent California ruling affirming the status of Domestic Partnerships may deal a setback to efforts to provide equal marriage rights through the legislative process. The San Francisco Chronicle reports toda&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: John Anderson</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2005/04/06/domestic-partnerships-not-gay-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-15203</link>
		<dc:creator>John Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Apr 2005 07:51:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Well, the ruling seems OK to me - except: 
 
I keep pointing out that no matter what the state calls it the laws prior to these amendments concerned &quot;civil unions&quot;. You can get &quot;married&quot; with or without the involvement of the State. FORMALLY married, in the religion of your choice. 
 
It&#039;s just that the State (at least here in L&#039;il Rhody) provides for a State license for cohabitation, and which provides certain services (eg a formalized of estate distribution in the absence of a will) for license holders. And SOME religious leaders (as I recall what I read of the law about a year ago, only about six reigions are so recognized) may in turn be licensed to sign for the State, in lieu of a judge or other government official. 
 
Yeah, the legislators who wrote the laws before roughly the mid-1990&#039;s, and dictionary authors ditto, only thought of hetero unions. But then, the legislature of Ohio in the late nineteenth century passed a law that &lt;i&gt;pi&lt;/i&gt; was &lt;b&gt;exactly&lt;/b&gt; 3. And the Oxford dictionary tentatively traces the expletive &quot;bloody&quot; to an Elizabethan (I, not II) bunch of ruffians, without mentioning that it had been in common usage for centuries before. 
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, the ruling seems OK to me &#8211; except: </p>
<p>I keep pointing out that no matter what the state calls it the laws prior to these amendments concerned &#8220;civil unions&#8221;. You can get &#8220;married&#8221; with or without the involvement of the State. FORMALLY married, in the religion of your choice. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s just that the State (at least here in L&#8217;il Rhody) provides for a State license for cohabitation, and which provides certain services (eg a formalized of estate distribution in the absence of a will) for license holders. And SOME religious leaders (as I recall what I read of the law about a year ago, only about six reigions are so recognized) may in turn be licensed to sign for the State, in lieu of a judge or other government official. </p>
<p>Yeah, the legislators who wrote the laws before roughly the mid-1990&#8242;s, and dictionary authors ditto, only thought of hetero unions. But then, the legislature of Ohio in the late nineteenth century passed a law that <i>pi</i> was <b>exactly</b> 3. And the Oxford dictionary tentatively traces the expletive &#8220;bloody&#8221; to an Elizabethan (I, not II) bunch of ruffians, without mentioning that it had been in common usage for centuries before. </p>
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		<title>By: Xrlq</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2005/04/06/domestic-partnerships-not-gay-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-15191</link>
		<dc:creator>Xrlq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Apr 2005 23:24:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/2005/04/06/2284/domestic-partnerships-not-gay-marriage/#comment-15191</guid>
		<description>Not only that.  Even if Section 308.5 &lt;i&gt;had&lt;/i&gt; been codified as a subsection of Section 308, &lt;i&gt;i.e.,&lt;/i&gt; Prop 22 had moved the existing language of 308 into a new subsection (a), and enacted Prop 22 as a new Subsection (b), that still wouldn&#039;t affect the plain meaning of either subsection.  Each would still have to be read and interpreted on its own, just as any two separately numbered statutes must be (unless, of course, they cross-reference each other, which these two don&#039;t).  If the intent of Prop 22 had been to amend Section 308, that&#039;s what we would have done - pass an initiative amending Section 308 to make it say whatever we wanted it to say.  That&#039;s not what we did.

As to when I have ever accepted a judge&#039;s ruling on a law at face value, frankly, that&#039;s what I &lt;i&gt;usually&lt;/i&gt; do.  I don&#039;t usually blog about cases like that because I generally have nothing to add.  In this case I did, both because I myself had previously taken a skeptical view of the validity of California&#039;s domestic partner law, and because at least one prominent blogger has been insisting that 2+2=3.  So that three appellate judges have unanimously said that &quot;nope, 2 plus 2 really does equal 4,&quot; I thought it worthwhile to point that out.

As to the &quot;separate but equal&quot; challenge, rotsa ruck.  Rather than overplay your hand, you&#039;d do well to accept this gift horse from the Legislature rather than look it in the mouth, and end up losing everything to a new DOMA amendment more in line with the one that passed in Kansas yesterday.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not only that.  Even if Section 308.5 <i>had</i> been codified as a subsection of Section 308, <i>i.e.,</i> Prop 22 had moved the existing language of 308 into a new subsection (a), and enacted Prop 22 as a new Subsection (b), that still wouldn&#8217;t affect the plain meaning of either subsection.  Each would still have to be read and interpreted on its own, just as any two separately numbered statutes must be (unless, of course, they cross-reference each other, which these two don&#8217;t).  If the intent of Prop 22 had been to amend Section 308, that&#8217;s what we would have done &#8211; pass an initiative amending Section 308 to make it say whatever we wanted it to say.  That&#8217;s not what we did.</p>
<p>As to when I have ever accepted a judge&#8217;s ruling on a law at face value, frankly, that&#8217;s what I <i>usually</i> do.  I don&#8217;t usually blog about cases like that because I generally have nothing to add.  In this case I did, both because I myself had previously taken a skeptical view of the validity of California&#8217;s domestic partner law, and because at least one prominent blogger has been insisting that 2+2=3.  So that three appellate judges have unanimously said that &#8220;nope, 2 plus 2 really does equal 4,&#8221; I thought it worthwhile to point that out.</p>
<p>As to the &#8220;separate but equal&#8221; challenge, rotsa ruck.  Rather than overplay your hand, you&#8217;d do well to accept this gift horse from the Legislature rather than look it in the mouth, and end up losing everything to a new DOMA amendment more in line with the one that passed in Kansas yesterday.</p>
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		<title>By: Joel B.</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2005/04/06/domestic-partnerships-not-gay-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-15190</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Apr 2005 23:13:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Oh my that&#039;s some legal analysis...worth every penny.  That&#039;s not the way codes work.  Just because 308.5 is numbered that way has no bearing on it&#039;s legal affect.  It was number 308.5 because 301-310 are already being used.  Part I of Division 3 of the Family Code is sections 300-310 those number correspond with validity of marriages.  308.5 was probably chosen because it corresponds with other declarations of validity.  So, if a bill was passed stating Marriage between a dog and cat is not recognized in California it would probably be number 308.6.  In any event the use of a decimal does not make it a subsection, even if it did, a subsection can overtake other entire sections, provided the right language.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh my that&#8217;s some legal analysis&#8230;worth every penny.  That&#8217;s not the way codes work.  Just because 308.5 is numbered that way has no bearing on it&#8217;s legal affect.  It was number 308.5 because 301-310 are already being used.  Part I of Division 3 of the Family Code is sections 300-310 those number correspond with validity of marriages.  308.5 was probably chosen because it corresponds with other declarations of validity.  So, if a bill was passed stating Marriage between a dog and cat is not recognized in California it would probably be number 308.6.  In any event the use of a decimal does not make it a subsection, even if it did, a subsection can overtake other entire sections, provided the right language.  </p>
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		<title>By: boifromtroy</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2005/04/06/domestic-partnerships-not-gay-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-15189</link>
		<dc:creator>boifromtroy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Apr 2005 22:50:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/2005/04/06/2284/domestic-partnerships-not-gay-marriage/#comment-15189</guid>
		<description>Also, it is pretty clear from the code that Sec. 308.5 is a subsection of Sec. 308:

&quot;308.  A marriage contracted outside this state that would be valid by the laws of the jurisdiction in which the marriage was contracted is valid in this state.

308.5.  Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California.&quot;

Now I am no lawyer, but I would read that to clearly imply that Sec. 308.5 amends Sec. 308, especially when Sec. 301 gives a definition of the parties who can get married in California legally.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, it is pretty clear from the code that Sec. 308.5 is a subsection of Sec. 308:</p>
<p>&#8220;308.  A marriage contracted outside this state that would be valid by the laws of the jurisdiction in which the marriage was contracted is valid in this state.</p>
<p>308.5.  Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California.&#8221;</p>
<p>Now I am no lawyer, but I would read that to clearly imply that Sec. 308.5 amends Sec. 308, especially when Sec. 301 gives a definition of the parties who can get married in California legally.</p>
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		<title>By: boifromtroy</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2005/04/06/domestic-partnerships-not-gay-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-15188</link>
		<dc:creator>boifromtroy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Apr 2005 22:48:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/2005/04/06/2284/domestic-partnerships-not-gay-marriage/#comment-15188</guid>
		<description>XRLQ, when have you EVER accepted as fact the entirety of a judge&#039;s ruling in a case like this?

HOWEVER, it does establish the basis for a &quot;Separate But Equal does not mean Equal&quot; challenge...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>XRLQ, when have you EVER accepted as fact the entirety of a judge&#8217;s ruling in a case like this?</p>
<p>HOWEVER, it does establish the basis for a &#8220;Separate But Equal does not mean Equal&#8221; challenge&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Joel B.</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2005/04/06/domestic-partnerships-not-gay-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-15180</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Apr 2005 21:31:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;m kind of surprised that you didn&#039;t know domestic partnerships existed prior to 2003.  They&#039;ve been around in California for what seems like quite a while.  In any event, I agree that this suit was really unfounded.  After all, Pete Knight was in the legislature, and knew about them.  It&#039;s not like domestic partnerships were a hidden issue from the drafters of Prop. 22.  A

Also, marriage is what most people really care about anyway.  So I think it was probably a tactical choice to keep Prop. 22 short, simple, and sweet.  And say it in as least offensive way as possible, but also get that initiative level of protection.  (Legislature can&#039;t change without going back to people, but they really should&#039;ve gotten a constitutional amendment, but who knew, 2000 seems so quaint by now...Judges weren&#039;t quite the monarchs they have recently decided to be).

In defense of the other side...although weakly Prop. 22 was one of the first DOMA-type iniatives and perhaps they didn&#039;t think about it, but would&#039;ve put that in there.  BUT, Of course, nothing stops them from attempting a referendum (well now it&#039;s too late), or at least a new initiative campaign.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m kind of surprised that you didn&#8217;t know domestic partnerships existed prior to 2003.  They&#8217;ve been around in California for what seems like quite a while.  In any event, I agree that this suit was really unfounded.  After all, Pete Knight was in the legislature, and knew about them.  It&#8217;s not like domestic partnerships were a hidden issue from the drafters of Prop. 22.  A</p>
<p>Also, marriage is what most people really care about anyway.  So I think it was probably a tactical choice to keep Prop. 22 short, simple, and sweet.  And say it in as least offensive way as possible, but also get that initiative level of protection.  (Legislature can&#8217;t change without going back to people, but they really should&#8217;ve gotten a constitutional amendment, but who knew, 2000 seems so quaint by now&#8230;Judges weren&#8217;t quite the monarchs they have recently decided to be).</p>
<p>In defense of the other side&#8230;although weakly Prop. 22 was one of the first DOMA-type iniatives and perhaps they didn&#8217;t think about it, but would&#8217;ve put that in there.  BUT, Of course, nothing stops them from attempting a referendum (well now it&#8217;s too late), or at least a new initiative campaign.</p>
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