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	<title>Comments on: Anti-Miers Questions</title>
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	<description>Politische Kommentare mit Snarkenremarken</description>
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		<title>By: Xrlq</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2005/10/26/anti-miers-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-37283</link>
		<dc:creator>Xrlq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Oct 2005 20:08:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/?p=2637#comment-37283</guid>
		<description>Right, with respect to the subjects addressed by those amendments.  But I see no basis for implying any greater privacy rights under the Ninth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right, with respect to the subjects addressed by those amendments.  But I see no basis for implying any greater privacy rights under the Ninth.</p>
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		<title>By: tgirsch</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2005/10/26/anti-miers-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-37282</link>
		<dc:creator>tgirsch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Oct 2005 19:55:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/?p=2637#comment-37282</guid>
		<description>Remember, at issue here is privacy in general, not abortion in particular.  As stated above, I can respect the position that the right to privacy does not extend to abortion, while I cannot respect the position that said right simply doesn&#039;t exist.

And again, the framing of the fourth and fifth amendments seems to assume some expectation of freedom from government intervention.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Remember, at issue here is privacy in general, not abortion in particular.  As stated above, I can respect the position that the right to privacy does not extend to abortion, while I cannot respect the position that said right simply doesn&#8217;t exist.</p>
<p>And again, the framing of the fourth and fifth amendments seems to assume some expectation of freedom from government intervention.</p>
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		<title>By: Xrlq</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2005/10/26/anti-miers-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-37276</link>
		<dc:creator>Xrlq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Oct 2005 18:09:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/?p=2637#comment-37276</guid>
		<description>First, I don&#039;t think the &lt;a href=&quot;http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment09/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ninth Amendment&lt;/a&gt; was intended to constitutionalize any particular rights, so much as to head off the &quot;X is not mentioned in the Constitution so it cannot be considered a right under any other theory, either&quot; argument that some of the opponents of the Bill of Rights had feared.  If it was intended to constitutionalize any such rights, &quot;shall not be construed to deny or disparage&quot; is pretty strange way of saying that.  Second, if the Ninth Amendment &lt;i&gt;was&lt;/i&gt; intended to constitutionalize any particular rights, it its limited by its terms to those rights &quot;retained&quot; by the people, i.e., those rights that the people were generally understood to possess at the time. I could see the argument that the Ninth Amendment should be deemed to &quot;incorporate&quot; individuals rights protected by the Magna Carta, the common law, or any other generally understood rights guaranteed to Englishmen prior to the Revolution.  I can&#039;t think of any remotely plausible theory that would stretch it far enough to cover privacy in general, or abortion in particular.  If anything, the fact that two other provisions of the BOR &lt;i&gt;do&lt;/i&gt; address specific privacy issues suggests that if the Framers did intend the Ninth Amendment as a catch-all for issues they hadn&#039;t thought of, privacy was not among the issues they hadn&#039;t thought of.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, I don&#8217;t think the <a href="http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment09/" rel="nofollow">Ninth Amendment</a> was intended to constitutionalize any particular rights, so much as to head off the &#8220;X is not mentioned in the Constitution so it cannot be considered a right under any other theory, either&#8221; argument that some of the opponents of the Bill of Rights had feared.  If it was intended to constitutionalize any such rights, &#8220;shall not be construed to deny or disparage&#8221; is pretty strange way of saying that.  Second, if the Ninth Amendment <i>was</i> intended to constitutionalize any particular rights, it its limited by its terms to those rights &#8220;retained&#8221; by the people, i.e., those rights that the people were generally understood to possess at the time. I could see the argument that the Ninth Amendment should be deemed to &#8220;incorporate&#8221; individuals rights protected by the Magna Carta, the common law, or any other generally understood rights guaranteed to Englishmen prior to the Revolution.  I can&#8217;t think of any remotely plausible theory that would stretch it far enough to cover privacy in general, or abortion in particular.  If anything, the fact that two other provisions of the BOR <i>do</i> address specific privacy issues suggests that if the Framers did intend the Ninth Amendment as a catch-all for issues they hadn&#8217;t thought of, privacy was not among the issues they hadn&#8217;t thought of.</p>
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		<title>By: tgirsch</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2005/10/26/anti-miers-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-37265</link>
		<dc:creator>tgirsch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Oct 2005 15:24:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/?p=2637#comment-37265</guid>
		<description>What, precisely, &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; our best guess as what its drafters intended?  My understanding (which could be wrong) is that it&#039;s essentially a catch-all, to cover the shit they didn&#039;t think to list explicitly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What, precisely, <i>is</i> our best guess as what its drafters intended?  My understanding (which could be wrong) is that it&#8217;s essentially a catch-all, to cover the shit they didn&#8217;t think to list explicitly.</p>
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		<title>By: Xrlq</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2005/10/26/anti-miers-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-37119</link>
		<dc:creator>Xrlq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Oct 2005 17:10:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/?p=2637#comment-37119</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Their jurisprudence usually amounts to the only privacy rights you have are the ones explicitly listed in those amendments, ninth amendment be damned.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

If by &quot;damned&quot; you mean &quot;interpreted according to our best guess at what its drafters intended,&quot; then perhaps so.  Bear in mind that even &lt;i&gt;Griswold&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i&gt;Roe&lt;/i&gt; do not hold that there is a Ninth Amendment right to privacy generally, nor to abortion or birth control specifically.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Their jurisprudence usually amounts to the only privacy rights you have are the ones explicitly listed in those amendments, ninth amendment be damned.</p></blockquote>
<p>If by &#8220;damned&#8221; you mean &#8220;interpreted according to our best guess at what its drafters intended,&#8221; then perhaps so.  Bear in mind that even <i>Griswold</i> and <i>Roe</i> do not hold that there is a Ninth Amendment right to privacy generally, nor to abortion or birth control specifically.</p>
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		<title>By: tgirsch</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2005/10/26/anti-miers-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-37001</link>
		<dc:creator>tgirsch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Oct 2005 06:17:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/?p=2637#comment-37001</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Xrlq:&lt;/b&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;I think “at all” is an overstatement&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Perhaps &quot;except where explicitly listed&quot; would have been a better way of wording it.  But &quot;at all&quot; is close enough for purposes of this discussion.  Their jurisprudence usually amounts to the only privacy rights you have are the ones explicitly listed in those amendments, ninth amendment be damned.
&lt;blockquote&gt;IOW, given my druthers, I’d be BOTH pro-life (don’t kill the fetus) AND pro-choice (don’t make a woman carry an unwanted fetus in her body against her will).&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I think that probably describes most of us, except for the extreme edges of the pro-life/pro-choice debate.  In my perfect world, no woman would ever get pregnant unintentionally, no woman would ever face a health risk from a pregnancy, etc.  But we don&#039;t live in a perfect world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Xrlq:</b></p>
<blockquote><p>I think “at all” is an overstatement</p></blockquote>
<p>Perhaps &#8220;except where explicitly listed&#8221; would have been a better way of wording it.  But &#8220;at all&#8221; is close enough for purposes of this discussion.  Their jurisprudence usually amounts to the only privacy rights you have are the ones explicitly listed in those amendments, ninth amendment be damned.</p>
<blockquote><p>IOW, given my druthers, I’d be BOTH pro-life (don’t kill the fetus) AND pro-choice (don’t make a woman carry an unwanted fetus in her body against her will).</p></blockquote>
<p>I think that probably describes most of us, except for the extreme edges of the pro-life/pro-choice debate.  In my perfect world, no woman would ever get pregnant unintentionally, no woman would ever face a health risk from a pregnancy, etc.  But we don&#8217;t live in a perfect world.</p>
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		<title>By: John Lott</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2005/10/26/anti-miers-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-36764</link>
		<dc:creator>John Lott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Oct 2005 03:43:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/?p=2637#comment-36764</guid>
		<description>This was very funny.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This was very funny.</p>
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		<title>By: Xrlq</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2005/10/26/anti-miers-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-36756</link>
		<dc:creator>Xrlq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Oct 2005 21:31:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/?p=2637#comment-36756</guid>
		<description>TGirsch-8:

I agree.  I consider that a question about one&#039;s judicial philosophy (&quot;Will you apply the law, or the tenets of your religion?&quot;) rather than the religion (&quot;What are the tenets of your religion, which you shoudln&#039;t be applying anyway?&quot;).  I guess I&#039;d have to make an exception for any religion that specifically requires its adherents to apply their religion rather than secular law if appointed as judges.

Then again, I can sort of understand the idea that having &lt;i&gt;one&lt;/i&gt; evangelical protestant Christian on the Court would not be a bad idea.  Genuine diversity of thought may serve the court well, and diversity of religious background is one aspect of that.  In that case the answer would be that it&#039;s different from other religious tests in that the goal is religious diversity, which is different from requiring all government officials within a given branch to conform to some religious orthodoxy.  Then again, if that really were the goal, I think a better case could be made for appointing an atheist.

TGirsch-9:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Fair enough, but we do still have a problem with anti-abortion judges. Rather than arguing that the right to privacy does not include the right to an abortion (which I can understand, even if I don&#039;t agree with it), these justices generally argue that the right to privacy is not constitutionally protected at all (which I have problems with - but I don’t expect us to agree on this).&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I think &quot;at all&quot; is an overstatement, &lt;cite&gt;i.e.,&lt;/cite&gt; all Justices would agree that certain privacy interests are protected by the Third Amendment, others by the Fourth, etc.  However, many anti-&lt;cite&gt;Roe&lt;/cite&gt; Justices would argue - correctly, IMO - that no part of the Constitution provides a general right to privacy.

&lt;blockquote&gt;On the abortion issue, just so I can understand, your position is that abortion is not protected by the federal constitution, and that regulation thereof should be left to the states, but that said states ought to keep abortion legal?  I ask because you call yourself &quot;pro-choice,&quot; but much of your rhetoric sounds awfully similar to &quot;pro-life&quot; rhetoric.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That is correct, as to first-trimester abortions.  If I sound pro-life it&#039;s probably because we&#039;re usually discussing either the constitutional issue, or late term / partial birth abortion, which I do oppose.  If science, technology, cost, etc. ever make it realistic for women to have first-trimester fetuses removed intact rather than killed, then raised by someone else at their own expense with no further contact to their biological mothers, I&#039;ll probably turn 100% pro-life then.  IOW, given my druthers, I&#039;d be BOTH pro-life (don&#039;t kill the fetus) AND pro-choice (don&#039;t make a woman carry an unwanted fetus in her body against her will).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TGirsch-8:</p>
<p>I agree.  I consider that a question about one&#8217;s judicial philosophy (&#8220;Will you apply the law, or the tenets of your religion?&#8221;) rather than the religion (&#8220;What are the tenets of your religion, which you shoudln&#8217;t be applying anyway?&#8221;).  I guess I&#8217;d have to make an exception for any religion that specifically requires its adherents to apply their religion rather than secular law if appointed as judges.</p>
<p>Then again, I can sort of understand the idea that having <i>one</i> evangelical protestant Christian on the Court would not be a bad idea.  Genuine diversity of thought may serve the court well, and diversity of religious background is one aspect of that.  In that case the answer would be that it&#8217;s different from other religious tests in that the goal is religious diversity, which is different from requiring all government officials within a given branch to conform to some religious orthodoxy.  Then again, if that really were the goal, I think a better case could be made for appointing an atheist.</p>
<p>TGirsch-9:</p>
<blockquote><p>Fair enough, but we do still have a problem with anti-abortion judges. Rather than arguing that the right to privacy does not include the right to an abortion (which I can understand, even if I don&#8217;t agree with it), these justices generally argue that the right to privacy is not constitutionally protected at all (which I have problems with &#8211; but I don’t expect us to agree on this).</p></blockquote>
<p>I think &#8220;at all&#8221; is an overstatement, <cite>i.e.,</cite> all Justices would agree that certain privacy interests are protected by the Third Amendment, others by the Fourth, etc.  However, many anti-<cite>Roe</cite> Justices would argue &#8211; correctly, IMO &#8211; that no part of the Constitution provides a general right to privacy.</p>
<blockquote><p>On the abortion issue, just so I can understand, your position is that abortion is not protected by the federal constitution, and that regulation thereof should be left to the states, but that said states ought to keep abortion legal?  I ask because you call yourself &#8220;pro-choice,&#8221; but much of your rhetoric sounds awfully similar to &#8220;pro-life&#8221; rhetoric.</p></blockquote>
<p>That is correct, as to first-trimester abortions.  If I sound pro-life it&#8217;s probably because we&#8217;re usually discussing either the constitutional issue, or late term / partial birth abortion, which I do oppose.  If science, technology, cost, etc. ever make it realistic for women to have first-trimester fetuses removed intact rather than killed, then raised by someone else at their own expense with no further contact to their biological mothers, I&#8217;ll probably turn 100% pro-life then.  IOW, given my druthers, I&#8217;d be BOTH pro-life (don&#8217;t kill the fetus) AND pro-choice (don&#8217;t make a woman carry an unwanted fetus in her body against her will).</p>
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		<title>By: tgirsch</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2005/10/26/anti-miers-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-36755</link>
		<dc:creator>tgirsch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Oct 2005 21:29:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/?p=2637#comment-36755</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;If anti-abortion judges were running around claiming abortion was unconstitutional, then we’d have an equal and opposite problem in the opposite direction.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Fair enough, but we do still have a problem with anti-abortion judges.  Rather than arguing that the right to privacy does not include the right to an abortion (which I can understand, even if I don&#039;t agree with it), these justices generally argue that the right to privacy is not constitutionally protected &lt;i&gt;at all&lt;/i&gt; (which I have problems with -- but I don&#039;t expect us to agree on this).

On the abortion issue, just so I can understand, your position is that abortion is not protected by the federal constitution, and that regulation thereof should be left to the states, but that said states ought to keep abortion legal?  I ask because you call yourself &quot;pro-choice,&quot; but much of your rhetoric sounds awfully similar to &quot;pro-life&quot; rhetoric.
&lt;blockquote&gt;the main reason Robert Bork wasn’t confirmed is not anything he’s written about anything, but simply the fact that he looks like Herman Munster&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The apearance certainly factored in, I&#039;m not going to deny that, but I think that the main reason he wasn&#039;t confirmed is because most people in the country -- and the Senate -- at the time simply thought he was nuts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>If anti-abortion judges were running around claiming abortion was unconstitutional, then we’d have an equal and opposite problem in the opposite direction.</p></blockquote>
<p>Fair enough, but we do still have a problem with anti-abortion judges.  Rather than arguing that the right to privacy does not include the right to an abortion (which I can understand, even if I don&#8217;t agree with it), these justices generally argue that the right to privacy is not constitutionally protected <i>at all</i> (which I have problems with &#8212; but I don&#8217;t expect us to agree on this).</p>
<p>On the abortion issue, just so I can understand, your position is that abortion is not protected by the federal constitution, and that regulation thereof should be left to the states, but that said states ought to keep abortion legal?  I ask because you call yourself &#8220;pro-choice,&#8221; but much of your rhetoric sounds awfully similar to &#8220;pro-life&#8221; rhetoric.</p>
<blockquote><p>the main reason Robert Bork wasn’t confirmed is not anything he’s written about anything, but simply the fact that he looks like Herman Munster</p></blockquote>
<p>The apearance certainly factored in, I&#8217;m not going to deny that, but I think that the main reason he wasn&#8217;t confirmed is because most people in the country &#8212; and the Senate &#8212; at the time simply thought he was nuts.</p>
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		<title>By: tgirsch</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2005/10/26/anti-miers-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-36754</link>
		<dc:creator>tgirsch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Oct 2005 21:17:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/?p=2637#comment-36754</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;it’s not proper to question nominees about their religion.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
This one&#039;s tricky.  They &lt;i&gt;type&lt;/i&gt; of question about their religion is important in determining whether or not the question is appropriate.  I don&#039;t see anything at all inappropriate about asking a candidate whether s/he is willing and able to hold the law of the land (the Constitution) over personal religion if the two should ever be in conflict.  Someone who cannot is unqualified, period, and I wouldn&#039;t want to be precluded from asking the question.

Now if you start getting into nitty-gritty details about specific religious beliefs, I&#039;d agree that this would be inappropriate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>it’s not proper to question nominees about their religion.</p></blockquote>
<p>This one&#8217;s tricky.  They <i>type</i> of question about their religion is important in determining whether or not the question is appropriate.  I don&#8217;t see anything at all inappropriate about asking a candidate whether s/he is willing and able to hold the law of the land (the Constitution) over personal religion if the two should ever be in conflict.  Someone who cannot is unqualified, period, and I wouldn&#8217;t want to be precluded from asking the question.</p>
<p>Now if you start getting into nitty-gritty details about specific religious beliefs, I&#8217;d agree that this would be inappropriate.</p>
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