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	<title>Comments on: In Defense of Fallacies</title>
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	<link>http://xrlq.com/2006/04/22/in-defense-of-fallacies/</link>
	<description>Politische Kommentare mit Snarkenremarken</description>
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		<title>By: We Should Live - Ben Bateman &#187; The Logical-Fallacy Attack</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2006/04/22/in-defense-of-fallacies/comment-page-1/#comment-60023</link>
		<dc:creator>We Should Live - Ben Bateman &#187; The Logical-Fallacy Attack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Apr 2006 03:17:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/2006/04/22/in-defense-of-fallacies/#comment-60023</guid>
		<description>[...] Xrlq has an excellent post on the common rhetorical maneuver of declaring the other side&#8217;s argument to be a logical fallacy. This maneuver is just a cheap shot at the other fellow&#8217;s emotions designed to shut down debate. And it&#8217;s quite effective at that, because the attack is so concise, and formulating the correct response requires a lot of thought and explanation. Now Xrlq has done the thinking and written out the explanation, so the rest of us can benefit from his effort. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Xrlq has an excellent post on the common rhetorical maneuver of declaring the other side&#8217;s argument to be a logical fallacy. This maneuver is just a cheap shot at the other fellow&#8217;s emotions designed to shut down debate. And it&#8217;s quite effective at that, because the attack is so concise, and formulating the correct response requires a lot of thought and explanation. Now Xrlq has done the thinking and written out the explanation, so the rest of us can benefit from his effort. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff G</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2006/04/22/in-defense-of-fallacies/comment-page-1/#comment-59368</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Apr 2006 20:41:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/2006/04/22/in-defense-of-fallacies/#comment-59368</guid>
		<description>When I taught argument and persuasion, I used to tell students that just about every truly persuasive argument incorporates some form of logical fallacy -- and so the trick was getting very good at disguising the fallacies deployed to ramp up the effectiveness of your own arguments and becoming expert at recognizing the fallacies in the arguments of your opponents.

The reason (and here is where the proceeding dovetails with this post) is that, from a meta-argumentative perspective, the &lt;i&gt;pointing out of others&#039; fallacies&lt;/i&gt; often places them on the rhetorical defensive.  And, at the very least, it provides a weak seam at which to apply pressure against the argument&#039;s thrust.

So while it may be true that fallacies in and of themselves don&#039;t necessarily derail an argument (in fact, they are often the very thing that &quot;wins&quot; the argument, when they escape unnoticed), it is likewise true, I think, that being able to recognize them and point them out is a powerful rhetorical tool.  

As is pointing out that pointing out fallacies does not necessarily invalidate the larger argument that the fallacies are deployed in support of -- which is what you do here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I taught argument and persuasion, I used to tell students that just about every truly persuasive argument incorporates some form of logical fallacy &#8212; and so the trick was getting very good at disguising the fallacies deployed to ramp up the effectiveness of your own arguments and becoming expert at recognizing the fallacies in the arguments of your opponents.</p>
<p>The reason (and here is where the proceeding dovetails with this post) is that, from a meta-argumentative perspective, the <i>pointing out of others&#8217; fallacies</i> often places them on the rhetorical defensive.  And, at the very least, it provides a weak seam at which to apply pressure against the argument&#8217;s thrust.</p>
<p>So while it may be true that fallacies in and of themselves don&#8217;t necessarily derail an argument (in fact, they are often the very thing that &#8220;wins&#8221; the argument, when they escape unnoticed), it is likewise true, I think, that being able to recognize them and point them out is a powerful rhetorical tool.  </p>
<p>As is pointing out that pointing out fallacies does not necessarily invalidate the larger argument that the fallacies are deployed in support of &#8212; which is what you do here.</p>
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		<title>By: Electric Venom &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Prostitution Rests</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2006/04/22/in-defense-of-fallacies/comment-page-1/#comment-58759</link>
		<dc:creator>Electric Venom &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Prostitution Rests</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:46:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/2006/04/22/in-defense-of-fallacies/#comment-58759</guid>
		<description>[...] Blogosphere, I direct your attention to a perfect fallacy.    Spewed in: Blog Bites, Law Bites at 12:45 pm    Trackback URL for this post:http://www.electricvenom.com/2006/04/25/the-prostitution-rests/trackback/ [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Blogosphere, I direct your attention to a perfect fallacy.    Spewed in: Blog Bites, Law Bites at 12:45 pm    Trackback URL for this post:http://www.electricvenom.com/2006/04/25/the-prostitution-rests/trackback/ [...]</p>
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		<title>By: nk</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2006/04/22/in-defense-of-fallacies/comment-page-1/#comment-58481</link>
		<dc:creator>nk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Apr 2006 03:25:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/2006/04/22/in-defense-of-fallacies/#comment-58481</guid>
		<description>If you had called me at home at noon yesterday I would ahve told you that I was cooking and my wife and daughter were at Home Depot.  What would you have logically inferred from that?

In detail, I was grilling half a lamb and my wife and daughter were shopping for seedling flowers for our yard.  Change your inference?

Martin Luther expressed roughly the same opinion for logic that Socrates expressed for rhetoric:  Whorishness/pander. Rhetoric (speech) and logic (words) are practically synonyms in their original meaning.  How about we call both word-games and think things not words?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you had called me at home at noon yesterday I would ahve told you that I was cooking and my wife and daughter were at Home Depot.  What would you have logically inferred from that?</p>
<p>In detail, I was grilling half a lamb and my wife and daughter were shopping for seedling flowers for our yard.  Change your inference?</p>
<p>Martin Luther expressed roughly the same opinion for logic that Socrates expressed for rhetoric:  Whorishness/pander. Rhetoric (speech) and logic (words) are practically synonyms in their original meaning.  How about we call both word-games and think things not words?</p>
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		<title>By: Charlie (Colorado)</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2006/04/22/in-defense-of-fallacies/comment-page-1/#comment-58469</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie (Colorado)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Apr 2006 02:46:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/2006/04/22/in-defense-of-fallacies/#comment-58469</guid>
		<description>Um, no, actually the point of noting a fallacy is to show that the argument as given is not valid: you can&#039;t, &lt;i&gt;by that argument&lt;/i&gt;, infer the consequence based on the argument given.

That doesn&#039;t necessarily mean the consquent isn&#039;t true, but that&#039;s not significant when we note a fallacy, because noting a fallacy is inherently about the form of the argument.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Um, no, actually the point of noting a fallacy is to show that the argument as given is not valid: you can&#8217;t, <i>by that argument</i>, infer the consequence based on the argument given.</p>
<p>That doesn&#8217;t necessarily mean the consquent isn&#8217;t true, but that&#8217;s not significant when we note a fallacy, because noting a fallacy is inherently about the form of the argument.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Munger</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2006/04/22/in-defense-of-fallacies/comment-page-1/#comment-58403</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Munger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Apr 2006 23:47:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/2006/04/22/in-defense-of-fallacies/#comment-58403</guid>
		<description>Yeah, Hubris is an ass.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, Hubris is an ass.</p>
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		<title>By: SayUncle &#187; Sounds like a fallacy fallacy to me</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2006/04/22/in-defense-of-fallacies/comment-page-1/#comment-58282</link>
		<dc:creator>SayUncle &#187; Sounds like a fallacy fallacy to me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Apr 2006 12:27:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/2006/04/22/in-defense-of-fallacies/#comment-58282</guid>
		<description>[...] Xrlqy Wrlqy defends logical fallacies. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Xrlqy Wrlqy defends logical fallacies. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Xrlq</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2006/04/22/in-defense-of-fallacies/comment-page-1/#comment-58235</link>
		<dc:creator>Xrlq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Apr 2006 11:21:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/2006/04/22/in-defense-of-fallacies/#comment-58235</guid>
		<description>I have read his article; in fact I think I linked to it in a prior draft, though I see I must have deleted that reference inadvertently.  I agree that there is nothing fallacious about slippery slope as an argument that A will materially increase the likelihood of B; depending on what A and B are, sometimes that will be a valid argument, other times not.  However, if slippery slope were universally understood that way, it wouldn&#039;t be on every logician&#039;s list of fallacies, and bloggers wouldn&#039;t &quot;win&quot; arguments simply by identifying their opponents&#039; arguments as &quot;slippery slope&quot; (which they are) and therefore &quot;fallacious&quot; (which they are only in a technical, formal logic sense of the word), and therefore wrong (which they may or may not be, depending on what they&#039;re claiming).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have read his article; in fact I think I linked to it in a prior draft, though I see I must have deleted that reference inadvertently.  I agree that there is nothing fallacious about slippery slope as an argument that A will materially increase the likelihood of B; depending on what A and B are, sometimes that will be a valid argument, other times not.  However, if slippery slope were universally understood that way, it wouldn&#8217;t be on every logician&#8217;s list of fallacies, and bloggers wouldn&#8217;t &#8220;win&#8221; arguments simply by identifying their opponents&#8217; arguments as &#8220;slippery slope&#8221; (which they are) and therefore &#8220;fallacious&#8221; (which they are only in a technical, formal logic sense of the word), and therefore wrong (which they may or may not be, depending on what they&#8217;re claiming).</p>
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		<title>By: jinnmabe</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2006/04/22/in-defense-of-fallacies/comment-page-1/#comment-58148</link>
		<dc:creator>jinnmabe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Apr 2006 03:02:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/2006/04/22/in-defense-of-fallacies/#comment-58148</guid>
		<description>Damn that apostrophe in the wrong place!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Damn that apostrophe in the wrong place!</p>
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		<title>By: jinnmabe</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2006/04/22/in-defense-of-fallacies/comment-page-1/#comment-58141</link>
		<dc:creator>jinnmabe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Apr 2006 02:57:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/2006/04/22/in-defense-of-fallacies/#comment-58141</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I had the same reaction to the slippery slope thing as the other guys. Have you read Eugene Volokh&#039;s articles about the slippery slope? Very interesting, but he describes the argument a little differently than you did. You said it was &quot;the notion that A will necessarily lead to B.&quot; He described it as A making B materially more likely, not that A would have logically required the
corresponding B. In that sense, slippery slope&#039;s are a factual argument, not a classically logical one. For instance, Prof. Volokh offers a few reasons why gun registration materially increases the likelihood that gun confiscation COULD result. Not that it necessarily WILL result, but that A makes B more likely. &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.law.ucla.edu/volokh/slippery.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here&lt;/a&gt; is the article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I had the same reaction to the slippery slope thing as the other guys. Have you read Eugene Volokh&#8217;s articles about the slippery slope? Very interesting, but he describes the argument a little differently than you did. You said it was &#8220;the notion that A will necessarily lead to B.&#8221; He described it as A making B materially more likely, not that A would have logically required the<br />
corresponding B. In that sense, slippery slope&#8217;s are a factual argument, not a classically logical one. For instance, Prof. Volokh offers a few reasons why gun registration materially increases the likelihood that gun confiscation COULD result. Not that it necessarily WILL result, but that A makes B more likely. <a href="http://www.law.ucla.edu/volokh/slippery.htm" rel="nofollow">Here</a> is the article.</p>
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