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	<title>Comments on: Still More on Circular Firing Squads</title>
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	<link>http://xrlq.com/2008/11/08/still-more-on-circular-firing-squads/</link>
	<description>Politische Kommentare mit Snarkenremarken</description>
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		<title>By: Terry</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2008/11/08/still-more-on-circular-firing-squads/comment-page-1/#comment-463293</link>
		<dc:creator>Terry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 20:27:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/?p=4055#comment-463293</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;To cite a self-serving example, before the Washington Times quoted me on the issue of the Obama campaign’s bully tactics, they asked me if I agreed to be quoted by my real name which, to the surprise of my readers, is not really Xrlq. I agreed, but if I hadn’t, would that have been a reason not to quote me at all?&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Well, the obvious answer is &quot;no,&quot;  but there is qualitative difference between the two quotes.

In the instance of your quote, all the reader (or, preferably, the reporter) has to do is look up the text of the case that you cite to determine whether you are telling the truth.  IOWs, even if it turns out that Xrlq is a cad, bounder, and worthless layabout, the reading public does not have to take his word for the argument.  The truth of the information can be independently verified and, if false, everyone learns that Xrlq is a lying weasel.

In the instance of assertions about Palin, the reader is utterly unable to do so because the news organization has actively concealed the information necessary to determine the truth of the quote.  In such a case, I think that Beldar is right.  When the only way to evaluate the truth of the quote is to assess the credibility of the speaker, then I think the journalist in question should either provide that information or just hold on to the story until he finds another way to verify the story.

Hey, maybe he could have called up James Joyner to confirm the story.  He seems to think that he has the ability to read Sarah Palin&#039;s mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>To cite a self-serving example, before the Washington Times quoted me on the issue of the Obama campaign’s bully tactics, they asked me if I agreed to be quoted by my real name which, to the surprise of my readers, is not really Xrlq. I agreed, but if I hadn’t, would that have been a reason not to quote me at all?&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Well, the obvious answer is &#8220;no,&#8221;  but there is qualitative difference between the two quotes.</p>
<p>In the instance of your quote, all the reader (or, preferably, the reporter) has to do is look up the text of the case that you cite to determine whether you are telling the truth.  IOWs, even if it turns out that Xrlq is a cad, bounder, and worthless layabout, the reading public does not have to take his word for the argument.  The truth of the information can be independently verified and, if false, everyone learns that Xrlq is a lying weasel.</p>
<p>In the instance of assertions about Palin, the reader is utterly unable to do so because the news organization has actively concealed the information necessary to determine the truth of the quote.  In such a case, I think that Beldar is right.  When the only way to evaluate the truth of the quote is to assess the credibility of the speaker, then I think the journalist in question should either provide that information or just hold on to the story until he finds another way to verify the story.</p>
<p>Hey, maybe he could have called up James Joyner to confirm the story.  He seems to think that he has the ability to read Sarah Palin&#8217;s mind.</p>
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		<title>By: Xrlq</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2008/11/08/still-more-on-circular-firing-squads/comment-page-1/#comment-459814</link>
		<dc:creator>Xrlq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 12:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/?p=4055#comment-459814</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not aware of a journalistic canon prohibiting journalists from granting confidentiality as a means to obtain news they otherwise wouldn&#039;t get.  Nor do I see any reason why I, as a citizen who&#039;d rather have more information than less, should &lt;i&gt;want&lt;/i&gt; them to operate according to any such principle.  At most, I&#039;d say they should highlight the confidentiality issue in their story, so all readers/listeners are reminded to take the story with an appropriately sized grain of salt.

To cite a self-serving example, before the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/30/blogotics/?page=2&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;i&gt;Washington Times&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt; quoted &lt;a href=&quot;/2008/09/26/fascist-jerk-of-the-day-robert-f-bauer/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;me&lt;/a&gt; on the issue of the Obama campaign&#039;s bully tactics, they asked me if I agreed to be quoted by my real name which, to the surprise of my readers, is not really Xrlq.  I agreed, but if I hadn&#039;t, would that have been a reason not to quote me at all?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not aware of a journalistic canon prohibiting journalists from granting confidentiality as a means to obtain news they otherwise wouldn&#8217;t get.  Nor do I see any reason why I, as a citizen who&#8217;d rather have more information than less, should <i>want</i> them to operate according to any such principle.  At most, I&#8217;d say they should highlight the confidentiality issue in their story, so all readers/listeners are reminded to take the story with an appropriately sized grain of salt.</p>
<p>To cite a self-serving example, before the <a href="http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/30/blogotics/?page=2" rel="nofollow"><i>Washington Times</i></a> quoted <a href="/2008/09/26/fascist-jerk-of-the-day-robert-f-bauer/" rel="nofollow">me</a> on the issue of the Obama campaign&#8217;s bully tactics, they asked me if I agreed to be quoted by my real name which, to the surprise of my readers, is not really Xrlq.  I agreed, but if I hadn&#8217;t, would that have been a reason not to quote me at all?</p>
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		<title>By: Beldar</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2008/11/08/still-more-on-circular-firing-squads/comment-page-1/#comment-459743</link>
		<dc:creator>Beldar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 05:01:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/?p=4055#comment-459743</guid>
		<description>Re-reading my paragraph about Cameron:

&lt;blockquote&gt;To Carl Cameron and others at Fox News: Shame on you for granting these people anonymity. There is no basis in journalistic ethics for you to do that. Shame on you for reporting this garbage at all. With the exception of a few there like Greta Van Susterin who&#039;ve refused to buy into this nonsense, you are rapidly eroding such credibility and respectability as your network had earned among Americans disgusted with the mainstream media in general. Stop what you&#039;re doing immediately.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I see where you were misled. By &quot;reporting this garbage at all,&quot; I meant &quot;reporting this garbage at all&quot; &lt;i&gt;based on confidential sources&lt;/i&gt;, i.e., I intended for the first (topic) sentence to qualify the entire paragraph. To be clear: If the sources had been willing to go on the record, I would not have had any complaint with Cameron or Fox News reporting their comments.

Of course, they wouldn&#039;t have made the comments without guarantees of anonymity, so that they could perform their cowardly hatchet jobs and then slink away to their next job as someone else&#039;s campaign aide.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re-reading my paragraph about Cameron:</p>
<blockquote><p>To Carl Cameron and others at Fox News: Shame on you for granting these people anonymity. There is no basis in journalistic ethics for you to do that. Shame on you for reporting this garbage at all. With the exception of a few there like Greta Van Susterin who&#8217;ve refused to buy into this nonsense, you are rapidly eroding such credibility and respectability as your network had earned among Americans disgusted with the mainstream media in general. Stop what you&#8217;re doing immediately.</p></blockquote>
<p>I see where you were misled. By &#8220;reporting this garbage at all,&#8221; I meant &#8220;reporting this garbage at all&#8221; <i>based on confidential sources</i>, i.e., I intended for the first (topic) sentence to qualify the entire paragraph. To be clear: If the sources had been willing to go on the record, I would not have had any complaint with Cameron or Fox News reporting their comments.</p>
<p>Of course, they wouldn&#8217;t have made the comments without guarantees of anonymity, so that they could perform their cowardly hatchet jobs and then slink away to their next job as someone else&#8217;s campaign aide.</p>
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		<title>By: Beldar</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2008/11/08/still-more-on-circular-firing-squads/comment-page-1/#comment-459742</link>
		<dc:creator>Beldar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 04:51:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/?p=4055#comment-459742</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the ping, but you misstate my position. My complaint against Cameron and Fox News is not the reporting of the backstabbing comments. It&#039;s the granting of confidentiality to those who made the comments. Journalistic ethics, applied properly (which is strictly) don&#039;t permit journalists to grant confidentiality just to prevent someone from being embarrassed, or even from being fired, particularly when they &lt;i&gt;ought&lt;/i&gt; to be embarrassed or fired. There needs to be a compelling public interest which is furthered by permitting the confidentiality; the default value is supposed to be &quot;reporting on the record.&quot; 

Of course, it&#039;s not just Fox or Cameron who&#039;ve ignored that principle until it&#039;s virtually a dead letter. Others do this far more consistently. It sucks -- it&#039;s a major cause of death for professional journalism in America, which I believe is now no more than a rotting corpse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the ping, but you misstate my position. My complaint against Cameron and Fox News is not the reporting of the backstabbing comments. It&#8217;s the granting of confidentiality to those who made the comments. Journalistic ethics, applied properly (which is strictly) don&#8217;t permit journalists to grant confidentiality just to prevent someone from being embarrassed, or even from being fired, particularly when they <i>ought</i> to be embarrassed or fired. There needs to be a compelling public interest which is furthered by permitting the confidentiality; the default value is supposed to be &#8220;reporting on the record.&#8221; </p>
<p>Of course, it&#8217;s not just Fox or Cameron who&#8217;ve ignored that principle until it&#8217;s virtually a dead letter. Others do this far more consistently. It sucks &#8212; it&#8217;s a major cause of death for professional journalism in America, which I believe is now no more than a rotting corpse.</p>
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		<title>By: Anwyn</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2008/11/08/still-more-on-circular-firing-squads/comment-page-1/#comment-459733</link>
		<dc:creator>Anwyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 02:49:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/?p=4055#comment-459733</guid>
		<description>Yet you are arguing by what she actually said and what Joe Biden actually said--i.e. she said what the Constitution says and he said what it *doesn&#039;t*--that he still knows more than she does about it. She evidently at least read it or, as Xrlq pointed out, read a treatise containing the main point that she did. Whereas Biden pulled some article number out of ... the Fun House that lives in his brain? It wasn&#039;t like he said &quot;Yeah, the Constitution may say that but the office actually functions more like...&quot; no. He went on about articles and specifics that were wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yet you are arguing by what she actually said and what Joe Biden actually said&#8211;i.e. she said what the Constitution says and he said what it *doesn&#8217;t*&#8211;that he still knows more than she does about it. She evidently at least read it or, as Xrlq pointed out, read a treatise containing the main point that she did. Whereas Biden pulled some article number out of &#8230; the Fun House that lives in his brain? It wasn&#8217;t like he said &#8220;Yeah, the Constitution may say that but the office actually functions more like&#8230;&#8221; no. He went on about articles and specifics that were wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2008/11/08/still-more-on-circular-firing-squads/comment-page-1/#comment-459732</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 02:42:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/?p=4055#comment-459732</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Read somewhere … like in the Constitution?&lt;/em&gt;

Look, I&#039;m as strict constructionist as the next guy but I don&#039;t pretend that we govern precisely as envisioned by the Framers in 1787. And, if Sarah Palin sits around reading and thinking about the Constitution, I&#039;ll eat my proverbial hat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Read somewhere … like in the Constitution?</em></p>
<p>Look, I&#8217;m as strict constructionist as the next guy but I don&#8217;t pretend that we govern precisely as envisioned by the Framers in 1787. And, if Sarah Palin sits around reading and thinking about the Constitution, I&#8217;ll eat my proverbial hat.</p>
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		<title>By: Anwyn</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2008/11/08/still-more-on-circular-firing-squads/comment-page-1/#comment-459722</link>
		<dc:creator>Anwyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 01:18:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/?p=4055#comment-459722</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;But Palin wasn’t answering as a constitutional scholar but based, presumably, on something she’d read somewhere.&lt;/em&gt;

Read somewhere ... like in the Constitution?

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Anwyn&#180;s last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.anwyn.com/2008/11/08/dear-mark-steyn/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Dear Mark Steyn&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>But Palin wasn’t answering as a constitutional scholar but based, presumably, on something she’d read somewhere.</em></p>
<p>Read somewhere &#8230; like in the Constitution?</p>
<p><abbr><em>Anwyn&#180;s last blog post..<a href="http://www.anwyn.com/2008/11/08/dear-mark-steyn/" rel="nofollow">Dear Mark Steyn</a></em></abbr></p>
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		<title>By: Steve J.</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2008/11/08/still-more-on-circular-firing-squads/comment-page-1/#comment-459712</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve J.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 00:34:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/?p=4055#comment-459712</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;But whatever that admittedly bad answer meant, it sure as Hades didn’t mean Palin had never heard of the New York Times or the Washington Post (or, for that matter, the Washington Times or the New York Post).&lt;/i&gt;

First she can&#039;t name a single paper, then a couple of days later she said she regularly reads The Economist (yeah, right...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>But whatever that admittedly bad answer meant, it sure as Hades didn’t mean Palin had never heard of the New York Times or the Washington Post (or, for that matter, the Washington Times or the New York Post).</i></p>
<p>First she can&#8217;t name a single paper, then a couple of days later she said she regularly reads The Economist (yeah, right&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: Xrlq</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2008/11/08/still-more-on-circular-firing-squads/comment-page-1/#comment-459703</link>
		<dc:creator>Xrlq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Nov 2008 23:35:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/?p=4055#comment-459703</guid>
		<description>Of course she was answering based on a (correct) constitutional analysis.  Who cares whether she independently reached that conclusion or got it from some treatise those gun totin&#039;, intellectual-hatin&#039;, Palin-lovin&#039; Republicans aren&#039;t supposed to be reading anyway?  Both candidates discussed the issue in expressly constitutional terms.  On that level - and that&#039;s the only relevant one for this portion of the debate - she was right and he was wrong.

I suppose we&#039;ll have to agree to disagree on whether the Constitution counts as a practical purpose.  I think it does.  It&#039;s only a matter of time before some VP decides to take it upon himself to assert the powers the Senate Majority Leader (another constitutionally nonexistent position) had long assumed were his.  Or, for that matter, until some President and VP have a falling out, and the VP learns the hard way that his only executive duties are as a Cabinet member who serves at the pleasure of the President.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course she was answering based on a (correct) constitutional analysis.  Who cares whether she independently reached that conclusion or got it from some treatise those gun totin&#8217;, intellectual-hatin&#8217;, Palin-lovin&#8217; Republicans aren&#8217;t supposed to be reading anyway?  Both candidates discussed the issue in expressly constitutional terms.  On that level &#8211; and that&#8217;s the only relevant one for this portion of the debate &#8211; she was right and he was wrong.</p>
<p>I suppose we&#8217;ll have to agree to disagree on whether the Constitution counts as a practical purpose.  I think it does.  It&#8217;s only a matter of time before some VP decides to take it upon himself to assert the powers the Senate Majority Leader (another constitutionally nonexistent position) had long assumed were his.  Or, for that matter, until some President and VP have a falling out, and the VP learns the hard way that his only executive duties are as a Cabinet member who serves at the pleasure of the President.</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://xrlq.com/2008/11/08/still-more-on-circular-firing-squads/comment-page-1/#comment-459689</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Nov 2008 23:05:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xrlq.com/?p=4055#comment-459689</guid>
		<description>Sure. But Palin wasn&#039;t answering as a constitutional scholar but based, presumably, on something she&#039;d read somewhere.  Do you really think Biden, who has been in the Senate going on 40 years, doesn&#039;t know what the VP does or the relationship between the legislative and executive branches?

For all practical purposes, the VP is an executive officer with ceremonial duties in the legislature.

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;James Joyner&#180;s last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/OTB/~3/446614425/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Obama’s Landslide in Perspective&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure. But Palin wasn&#8217;t answering as a constitutional scholar but based, presumably, on something she&#8217;d read somewhere.  Do you really think Biden, who has been in the Senate going on 40 years, doesn&#8217;t know what the VP does or the relationship between the legislative and executive branches?</p>
<p>For all practical purposes, the VP is an executive officer with ceremonial duties in the legislature.</p>
<p><abbr><em>James Joyner&#180;s last blog post..<a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/OTB/~3/446614425/" rel="nofollow">Obama’s Landslide in Perspective</a></em></abbr></p>
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