All I Am Saying Is We Already Gave Keyes a Chance
Alan Keyes is suing to prevent Barack Obama from being elected President (technically, that hasn’t happened yet since the Electoral College has yet to vote) on the theory that Obama is not a natural born citizen qualified for the Presidency. I’m tempted to call the suit frivolous but doing so would be an insult to frivolity. The most obvious objections:
- A birth certificate from the State of Hawaii says Obama was born there. The suit was brought in state court in California. Even if there were evidence that the State of Hawaii was wrong in this determination (which there isn’t), it wouldn’t be the prerogative of a sister state to second-guess it.
- Obama’s mother, the daughter of the typical white woman who raised him, was a U.S. citizen all along. So even if Obama was born in Kenya, in Albania or on Mars, he’s still a natural born citizen.
- One word: standing. Suppose, hypothetically, that there really is a legitimate, non-frivolous debate as to whether or not Obama was a natural born citizen. How on earth is Alan Keyes injured by that?! He wasn’t a candidate in the race, nor is he a pledged elector for anybody in California, so even if there were a real case here, he would not be the proper party to bring it.
This case is probably moronic on other levels, as well, but at this point my brain hurts too much to think about it any more. Free advice for this would-be has-been who is better described as a never-really-was: don’t go away mad. Or do go away mad, I don’t care. Just go away.
God, I’m courageous. Not quite as courageous as Courageous George, mind you, but courageous nonetheless.
UPDATE: According to some commenters, #2 is not right because in 1961, his mother was not old enough for him to become a natural born citizen based on her citizenship alone. Some other commenters point out that Alan Keyes technically was a presidential candidate this year, which complicates my standing argument somewhat. I say “somewhat” because candidacy or no, it’s tough to imagine Keyes winning a single electoral vote if Obama had been disqualified.
UPDATE x2: The discussion gets progressively truthier, with several commenters arguing (apparently with a straight face, though this being the Internet, it’s impossible to know) that there is a difference between a “birth certificate” and a “certification of live birth.” Well, yeah, there is a difference between a “birth” and a “live birth.” Presumably if the kid had been born dead, he’d get some form of a birth certificate other than one certifying he was born alive. I don’t think anyone is seriously arguing that Obama can’t be President because he was stillborn. Yet. Give it time, though. Obama hasn’t even been sworn in yet, and we’re well on our way to matching the 9-11 truthers already.
November 19th, 2008 at 11:47 pm
Actually, Keyes was a candidate who got an estimated 41,000 votes. :) Though yeah, he wasn’t a serious contender.
ben´s last blog post..Sixty
November 20th, 2008 at 12:45 am
1 – No.
We have not yet seen the birth certificate. The paper released by the Obama campaign to the Daily Kos web site was a “Certification of Live Birth,” which is different from a “Birth Certificate.”
2 – No.
Apparently the statute at the time only provided that U.S. citizenship would be conferred automatically if the U.S. citizen parent(s) were old enough. The Obama mama was too young for automatic citizenship to apply.
3 – Who else?
If a presidential candidate doesn’t have standing, who does? SOMEONE has to have standing, or this requirement is no requirement at all. The requirement is reduced to being optional based on whether the voters care enough to let that influence their vote.
November 20th, 2008 at 1:03 am
I only comment to support “Unfounded Speculation”‘s point 2: In fact, Barack Obama’s mother was too young at the time of his birth to grant him citizenship if he were born outside of the US.
That notwithstanding, this whole thing is ludicrous. He was born in Hawaii. There’s no evidence (short of the type embraced by the Truthers) to indicate anything else.
November 20th, 2008 at 4:09 am
I should add that I don’t really think Obama was born outside of the U.S. (there is some chance of it, but it seems like a very small chance) and I think this lawsuit is going nowhere.
Even if he was born overseas (like John McCain, who was born outside of the U.S.) that’s not going to stop him from taking office.
November 20th, 2008 at 8:46 am
[...] Alan Keyes is suing to prevent Barack Obama from becoming president by claiming the Big O is not a citizen. Xrlq says to call it frivolous is an insult to frivolity. [...]
November 20th, 2008 at 10:08 am
Just so you know, the other parties in the lawsuit are California Electors, who have standing according to SCOTUS’ recent ruling in the Berg case.
and
as far as evidence goes, there is none, EITHER WAY. Nobody knows for sure, and there are Obama family members on both sides of this story saying the other side is wrong. The only evidence is that sheet of paper which Obama refuses to produce to settle lawsuits in (if they all get file) 16 or more states.
Vote For David´s last blog post..Obama: The Official Change = All The Same Old People
November 20th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
Keyes was a candidate which most likely would give him standing.
November 20th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
At this point it’s not the crime, it’s the cover-up. A normal person would have gone to a federal judge and had his original long-form birth certificate verified without engaging with the kooks – which is what John McCain did.
So we all want to know why Obama won’t release it.
November 20th, 2008 at 8:35 pm
The paper released by the Obama campaign to the Daily Kos web site was a “Certification of Live Birth,” which is different from a “Birth Certificate.”
I’ve seen this around but am curious where it comes from. On my California-issued birth certificate the title is “Certificate of Live Birth.” Each state has the power to define the terms that appear on official documents, and it seems to me if Hawaii law defines a “Certification of Live Birth” as a birth certificate, that’s that.
If Hawaii law supports the CLB label as official, any contrary assertion is about as valid as claiming that because Congress chooses to title a declaration of war as an “Authorization to Use Military Force,” it’s not really a declaration of war.
Which is why I ask.
McGehee´s last blog post..Oh, and by the way…
November 20th, 2008 at 9:34 pm
UF, sorry, but the notion that a written “certification” of live birth is not a “certificate” of the same is beyond ludicrous. Either the State of Hawaii has certified that Obama was born there, or it has not. And unless the document was a forgery, it has so certified.
Interesting point about the other theory of natural born citizenship, but query whether current law would trump it. It doesn’t matter anyway, as Hawaii has certified he was born there, and California must accept that as fact.
Who else? How about anyone who could show that they suffered a cognizable injury as a result of the supposedly unconstitutional candidacy? Disqualifying Obama from the Presidency can have a huge impact on McCain or Clinton, either of whom might end up in the White House that way, or possibly even on Romney or Giuliani, if they can show that their primary campaigns may have gone differently if Obama had been off the table from the start. But Keyes? Does anyone seriously believe Alan Friggin’ Keyes’s nominal candidacy would have fared any better if Obama had been out of the picture?
? John McCain might have won if Obama had not been the candidate. Alan Keyes? C’mon. Though I his technical “candidacy” has to count for something.
November 20th, 2008 at 9:37 pm
Elaborate, please. The only Berg case I’m aware of said no such thing, and in any event was a decision by an individual federal judge, not the Supreme Court.
November 20th, 2008 at 10:24 pm
There’s also the possibility that he gave up his US citizenship when he moved to Indonesia. Granted, he was really young and didn’t have any say in the matter, but it would appear that this is the case.
I’ve also heard that at the time of his birth, Obama’s mom was using her new Muslim name (so it would be the name listed on the birth certificate) and he didn’t want that getting out prior to the election.
The real question is… who would Congress pick to replace him if he was disqualified?
November 21st, 2008 at 1:14 am
Their is a difference between a Certificate of Live Birth (CLB) and a Birth Certificate (BC). A BC is a witnessed live birth at a hospital or medical center, or attended by licensed MD, Nurse Practitioner or Midwife. CLBs are issued to those who show up to the hospital w/ a baby (usually up to a week after birth). Think home birth w/o licensed medical care, Amish, immigrant community, etc. It’s the state saying “yep it’s a baby”, but unable to certify where or when exactly it was born.
November 21st, 2008 at 7:10 am
GunGeek: even if it were true that Obama involuntarily surrendered his citizenship as a kid and had to re-naturalize later, so what? He’s still a natural born citizen. Even if your first marriage ends in a nasty divorce, she’ll always be your first wife.
Phenicks: you are so full of crap your eyes are brown. I was born in a hospital in Illinois, and got a “Certificate of Live Birth.” So too did both of my sons, born in CA and VA, respectively. All three certificates do indeed certify when and where we were born, not just that we were in fact babies. Ditto for Obama’s birth certificate, which states he was born in the City of Honolulu, on the Island of Oahu, on August 4, 1961, at 7:24 p.m. (Standard Time, if you care; they don’t do DST in HI). At least the first commenter to raise this unfounded speculation had the good sense to label his unfounded speculation as such.
November 21st, 2008 at 10:21 am
you are so full of crap your eyes are brown.
Hey, wait a minute! I have brown eyes! :)
tgirsch´s last blog post..The Bush Legacy
November 21st, 2008 at 10:52 am
XRLQ – If Obama gave up his citizenship and then renaturalized, then he would be a naturalized citizen and not eligible.
November 21st, 2008 at 11:41 am
ParatrooperJJ: On what do you base this? If you were naturally born a citizen, how are you not a natural born citizen? Hell, I could even see the argument that a person who was born a citizen, renounced his citizenship, and did not re-naturalize would still be a natural-born citizen, just not a citizen. Just like your ex-wife may no longer be your wife, but she’s still your first wife. And if you remarry her later, she’s both.
TGirsch: That’s OK. You’re a liberal; you’re supposed to be full of crap.
November 21st, 2008 at 2:45 pm
Heck, politics is one of the few areas of life where I’m not full of crap! :) Most other areas, I’ll freely admit to it!
tgirsch´s last blog post..The Bush Legacy
November 22nd, 2008 at 10:56 pm
Holy fucking shit who left the door to the asylum open?
December 14th, 2008 at 11:22 pm
Look, I just got done talking with a practicing appellate and constitutional lawyer and a practicing immigration lawyer on this “Obama citizenship” issue. This is their reply which a bunch of you hoping to nullify the election should hear. I quote: “As a child of an American citizen, Obama would be, and is, a natural born citizen, until and as an adult, he renounced that citizenship. It does not matter in any legal context where he was born or as a child may have held citizenship, provided that one parent, as in this case his mother, was a legal citizen of the US.” So Keyes and the rest of the far right are just spitting in the wind trying to nullify Obama’s election and eligibility to serve as president. Keyes, and none of these other suits being filed will be heard or put on a docket. And that is the opinion of the practicing appellate and constitutional law firm of Gibson, Dunn, and Croutcher, the most respected and considered to be the best appellate and constitutional law firm by The National Law Journal. Arguing Obama’s legal citizenship status any further is just plain stupid.
December 14th, 2008 at 11:30 pm
And Obama cannot give up his citizenship as a child, he can only renounce his citizen ship as an adult, which he never did as a child or an adult. Like I said, a bunch of conservatives are spitting in the wind and Keyes or anybody elses challenge to Obama’s vailid claim to the presidency, well they all might as well claim they saw Bigfoot taking a bath in Alan Keyes bathroom, that might go farther in court than any of these legal challenges to Obama’s presidency.
December 14th, 2008 at 11:33 pm
RJ, I’m inclined to agree, of course, but do have a follow-up question or two for your source at Gibson, Dunn, or anyone else who specializes in immigration law. The tinfoil hat crowd argues that Obama had to be born on U.S. soil to be a natural born citizen, as 1961 law would otherwise required both of his parents to be citizens (which his father wasn’t), or his mother to be older than she was at the time. Can your source confirm or deny whether U.S. law actually so provided in 1961 (Lexis only goes back to the early 1990s)? And if it did, does that matter, or can today’s law retroactively make “natural born citizens” out of individuals who, paradoxically, would not have been considered natural born citizens under the law that existed at the time of their birth?