People are claiming conspiracy without actually looking at the facts present.

My reference to the CIA was intended as only one example of strongly entrenched institutions in our country who make sure that we get no Manchurian Candidates. I have no love for the little bastard spawn of a Kenyan bigamist and an underage Kansan hippie. But why don’t we go huntin’ where the ducks are, hmm?
nk´s last blog ..Don’t Ask

Fact 2: It is irrelevant where his father was born. He was born in the US.

Fact 3: Regarding his mother: the US code states “was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years ” – Mother spent 4 years and 10 months after 14, well exceeding the 2 year provision.

Fact 4: There is a gap in the US code regarding Panama. John McCain may not be eligible to be POTUS or for that matter, a Senator. IMHO his service to the country should render that point moot.

Fact 5: Going forward the code needs to be revised. I believe that any citizen of the US, no matter how citizenship is attained should be eligible for every elective office once certain minimums have been met ie. age and years as a citizen.

Fact 6: The birthers reckless interpretation of the Constitution and US code would actually render many children of the military to be ineligible to be POTUS. Be very careful what you wish for.

Fact 7: The Major is an asshat. A traitor and a coward. He should be breaking rocks at Leavenworth.

Fact 8: The Apollo landing conspiracy theorists are mre grounded in reality than the Birthers. They are of insane nutjobs but of a slightly lesser magnitude.

You are assuming that this falls under the CIA’s jurisdiction, which it doesn’t. But even more importantly, don’t you want to know for sure? What about open government and our right to know?

Have we lost those rights? Are you willing to lose YOUR rights?

Should we just blindly ASSUME that it’s okay if there is no proof, without doubt, that the Constitution has been followed? Is it a moot issue to you?

There would be little to discuss, if Obama showed a valid birth certificate stating a time, date, hospital, doctor, etc. You wouldn’t have the need to call anyone a moron (at least over this issue) if we had proof. In fact, there would be no debate.

One of the morons who cares about your right too!

“And no, a U.S. military base is not U.S. soil. Have you completely forgotten why Gitmo is located in Guantanamo, Cuba rather than, say, Leavenworth? It’s because military bases do not U.S. soil make. McCain is indeed a natural born citizen, but that’s because his parents were both U.S. citizens at the time of his birth, not because the location of his birth happened to be a military base. Do you really think a Panamanian kid born on that same base could run for President, too?”

You said both McCain’s parents were United States citizens conferring Natural Born status. You are correct, via senate resolution: http://leahy.senate.gov/press/200804/041008c.html

Hawaiian law states:

[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State. (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.

(b) Proof of legal residency shall be submitted to the director of health in any manner that the director shall deem appropriate. The director of health may also adopt any rules pursuant to chapter 91 that he or she may deem necessary or proper to prevent fraudulent applications for birth certificates and to require any further information or proof of events necessary for completion of a birth certificate.

(c) The fee for each application for registration shall be established by rule adopted pursuant to chapter 91. [L 1982, c 182, §1]

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0017_0008.htm

This means anyone could get a birth certificate for a child, no matter where (what country) the child is born, I think it is completely valid, but it does not prove he was born in Hawaii only that he obtained a certificate according to Hawaiian law. if a parent declared Hawaii as their legal residence at the time of Obama’s birth a certificate was issued this does not make him “Natural Born” especially if he was born in Kenya. If you will, please go to:

http://crisericson2010.blogspot.com/

The fifth screen down, taken before the election, states, “In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green, This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout.). Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verfication by DHHL.”

The text now says:

“Birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth and Certifications of Live Birth) and Certificates of Hawaiian Birth are the primary documents used to determine native Hawaiian qualification.

The Department of Hawaiian Home Lands accepts both Certificates of Live Birth (original birth certificate) and Certifications of Live Birth because they are official government records documenting an individual’s birth. The Certificate of Live Birth generally has more information which is useful for genealogical purposes as compared to the Certification of Live Birth which is a computer-generated printout that provides specific details of a person’s birth. Although original birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth) are preferred for their greater detail, the State Department of Health (DOH) no longer issues Certificates of Live Birth. When a request is made for a copy of a birth certificate, the DOH issues a Certification of Live Birth.”

I find it interesting that this has changed since Obama was elected. So many concessions are being made. Believe what you want, or don’t believe, it’s not like we are going to make any difference today or tomorrow. Wouldn’t you want to know for sure though, if he is legally allowed to serve? I do, and everything is sealed. Why?!? School records, passports, long form birth certificate, adoption papers, etc all out of reach. Is this transparent?

Once again I say, all Obama has to do is show a long form birth certificate with Hawaii as his birthplace, listing time, date, hospital, doctor, etc. Then this debate is over. I don’t think he can do it or it would have been done by now.

A trollette! :) ;}

Hi Xriq! All Obama has to do is show a long form birth certificate with Hawaii as his birthplace, listing time, date, hospital, etc. Debate is over.

Seeing as it costs him zero support while making a significant number of his opponents look like idiots, I can’t imagine why he would want that debate to be over. If I were Rahm Emanuel, I’d be advising him to do everything he can to keep it alive. That said, I’m not sure why you think issuing a copy of the long form birth certificate would accomplish anything that the COLB hasn’t accomplished already. Both contain all the information needed to determine his name, age and location of birth. Nothing else is constitutionally relevant.

Being born on U.S. soil makes a person a “Natural Born Citizen” The definition of natural in this instance is: 6. in a state of nature; uncultivated, as land.

Sez you. But you’ve yet to provide a shred of evidence to support your conclusion. The only constitutional reference to birth on U.S. soil is found in the Fourteenth Amendment, which the framers of the original Constitution could not have contemplated. And even under the Fourteenth Amendment, not all persons born on U.S. soil are entitled to citizenship, only those both born in the US and “subject to the jurisdiction thereof.”

Obama has never shown anything except the Certification of Live Birth, which shows that Obama’s birth was recorded (and recorded is the key word) in Hawaii, not that he was necessarily born in Hawaii.

Wrong. The COLB states in plain English that his “city, town or location of birth” was Honolulu, that his “island of birth” was Oahu, and that his “county of birth” was Honolulu. Right there you have the State of Hawaii certifying to the only facts that matter. What other good does it do to know which Honolulu hospital he was born in? All Honolulu hospitals are in Honolulu. All of Honolulu is part of the U.S., and was on August 4, 1961 at 7:24 p.m.

But remember, once again, all Obama has to do is show a long form birth certificate with Hawaii as his birthplace, listing time, date, hospital, etc. Debate is over! It’s that simple.

No, it isn’t. The same cranks who frivolously dispute the accuracy of the short-form certificate now could just as easily dispute the long-form one, as well. That could be forged, too, after all. The State of Hawaii has already certified to all facts of potential constitutional import. You either believe that certification or you don’t.

And no, a U.S. military base is not U.S. soil. Have you completely forgotten why Gitmo is located in Guantanamo, Cuba rather than, say, Leavenworth? It’s because military bases do not U.S. soil make. McCain is indeed a natural born citizen, but that’s because his parents were both U.S. citizens at the time of his birth, not because the location of his birth happened to be a military base. Do you really think a Panamanian kid born on that same base could run for President, too?

Look at the references here for more insight on our founding fathers’ reasons for the “Natural Born”, if you will:

http://www.naturalborncitizen.org/

Sorry, but some crank with a web site and an axe to grind is not an authority on the founding fathers or anything else, especially where such crank’s preferred method of argument seems to be “my views were so patently obvious to the founding fathers that they saw no reason to leave behind any evidence of it!”